Combs v. Central Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church , 173 F.3d 343 ( 1999 )


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  •                           Revised May 14, 1999
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    For the Fifth Circuit
    ___________________________
    No. 98-10193
    ___________________________
    REVEREND PAMELA COMBS,
    Plaintiff-Appellant,
    VERSUS
    THE CENTRAL TEXAS ANNUAL CONFERENCE OF THE UNITED METHODIST
    CHURCH (a non-profit corporation) and THE FIRST UNITED METHODIST
    CHURCH OF HURST,
    Defendants-Appellees.
    ___________________________________________________
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Northern District of Texas
    ___________________________________________________
    May 3, 1999
    Before DAVIS, SMITH, and WIENER, Circuit Judges.
    W. EUGENE DAVIS, Circuit Judge:
    Reverend Pamela Combs appeals the dismissal of her Title VII
    sex and pregnancy discrimination suit against the First United
    Methodist Church of Hurst (“First United”) and the Central Texas
    Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church (“Central Texas
    Conference”).   The sole question presented in this appeal is
    whether the district court correctly determined that the Free
    Exercise   Clause   of   the   First   Amendment    precluded   it   from
    considering Reverend Combs’s employment discrimination case.          For
    the reasons that follow, we conclude that the district court was
    correct and affirm.
    I.
    The district court granted Central Texas Conference’s Motion
    for Summary Judgment and also granted First United’s Motion to
    Dismiss    under   Federal   Rules    of   Civil   Procedure   12(b)(1)    and
    12(b)(6).    Therefore, on appeal, we review the facts, including
    credibility determinations and the reasonable inferences that may
    be drawn from the facts, in the light most favorable to the
    nonmoving party, Plaintiff Reverend Combs.                See, e.g., Wynn v.
    Washington Nat’l Ins. Co., 
    122 F.3d 266
    , 268 (5th Cir. 1997).              The
    facts of this case, when viewed in such a light, are summarized as
    follows.
    Reverend Combs is a graduate of the New Orleans Theological
    Seminary.    In 1988, she was ordained as a Baptist minister.               In
    1993, she was hired as First United’s Singles Minister.              In late
    1994, she was appointed First United’s Associate Minister. In this
    new position, she served communion, assisted in baptisms, performed
    marriages, and led funerals.
    In February 1995, as part of the long process of having her
    ordination    recognized     within    the    Methodist    Church,   she   was
    interviewed by the United Methodist Board of Ordained Ministry,
    which unanimously recommended to the Bishop of the Central Texas
    Conference that she be ordained.           In June 1995, she was appointed
    by the Bishop, Joe A. Wilson, to serve for the next year as a
    minister at First United.
    2
    In October 1995, Reverend Combs, who was--and still is--
    married, announced that she was pregnant.                 She requested and was
    granted maternity leave for the expected childbirth.                       In March
    1996, she had her annual interview with the United Methodist Board
    of Ordained Ministry. The board again recommended unanimously that
    Reverend Combs continue with the process of having her ordination
    recognized within the Methodist Church.
    Around this time, Reverend Combs questioned why her pay was
    substantially     lower    than    that    of   the    male    ministers    she   had
    replaced.     She also requested a housing allowance because she and
    her family had moved out of the parsonage to free up space for
    other   church    use.      In    response,      the   Staff    Parish     Relations
    Committee made several adjustments to her compensation package.
    In April 1996, Reverend Combs took some accrued vacation time
    and began her eight-week maternity leave, as provided for clergy by
    the rules of the United Methodist Church Book of Discipline.                      On
    April 17, 1996, she gave birth.            Unfortunately, however, Reverend
    Combs suffered serious post-partum complications, which required
    hospitalization, surgery, heavy medication, and extensive rest.
    During      this    period    of     incapacitation,       Reverend     Combs’s
    position within First United was questioned by her pastor and
    immediate   supervisor,      Dr.    John       Fielder.       He   challenged     her
    competence, performance, and honesty.                 In addition, one of First
    United’s oversight committees stated that she was a lay employee
    rather than a member of the clergy.             The church then denied her the
    maternity benefits she had been granted and demanded she repay
    3
    those benefits that had already been paid to her.
    Nevertheless, in June 1996, the Bishop of the Central Texas
    Conference reappointed Reverend Combs as an Associate Minister for
    First United.       However, when Reverend Combs returned to work on
    June 17, 1996, she was told by Dr. Fielder that she had been
    terminated    and   that    she    was    required      to    leave   the    premises
    immediately. The next day, Reverend Combs went to the Staff Parish
    Relations Committee.        The committee stated that Dr. Fielder said
    she   had    resigned     and   that      the    committee      had   accepted    her
    resignation.     Reverend Combs protested that she had not resigned,
    but to no avail.        Reverend Combs then brought the matter to the
    attention of the Central Texas Conference.                   However, she found no
    support from that organization either.
    Reverend Combs filed a complaint with the Equal Employment
    Opportunity Commission (“EEOC”).                 The EEOC dismissed the claim
    under   Section     702    of     Title        VII,   which    permits      religious
    organizations to discriminate on the basis of religion.                     42 U.S.C.
    § 2000e-1.    The EEOC, however, did grant Reverend Combs a “right to
    sue” letter.
    Reverend Combs sued both the Central Texas Conference and
    First United, alleging discrimination on the basis of her sex and
    her pregnancy in violation of Title VII.                     She alleged that the
    deprivation of her benefits and her termination were the conclusion
    of a practice of discrimination that included disparate salary and
    treatment while she was employed.
    In response to this suit, Defendant Central Texas Conference
    4
    filed a Motion for Summary Judgment arguing, among other things,
    that the decision to terminate Reverend Combs was shielded from
    governmental review by the Free Exercise Clause of the First
    Amendment.    Defendant First United filed a Motion to Dismiss under
    Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) predicated
    upon the same theory.       On January 15, 1998, the district court
    granted these two motions and dismissed Reverend Comb’s suit.            The
    district court held that the First Amendment prohibits civil review
    of   the   Defendants’   decision   to    terminate   Reverend   Combs   and
    therefore the district court lacked jurisdiction over the case.
    Reverend Combs now appeals this dismissal.1
    II.
    The question before us is whether the Free Exercise Clause of
    the First Amendment2 deprives a federal court of jurisdiction to
    hear a Title VII employment discrimination suit brought against a
    church by a member of its clergy, even when the church’s challenged
    actions are not based on religious doctrine.
    All parties agree that prior to 1990, the district court
    1
    All parties agree that, at least for the purposes of this
    appeal, the following facts are true: Reverend Combs was a member
    of the clergy performing traditional clerical functions; both
    Defendants are churches and at least one of them employed Reverend
    Combs; and Reverend Combs’s claims are based purely on sex and
    pregnancy and do not directly involve matters of religious dogma or
    ecclesiastical law. In addition, for the purposes of this appeal,
    we assume that Reverend Combs’s allegations are sufficient to
    support a finding of discrimination.
    2
    The First Amendment provides, in part, “Congress shall make
    no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the
    free exercise thereof; . . . ”
    5
    decision would have been correct.               In McClure v. Salvation Army,
    
    460 F.2d 553
    , 560 (5th Cir. 1972), this Court established a church-
    minister3 exception to the coverage of Title VII.                  In this appeal,
    however, Reverend Combs questions whether McClure and its church-
    minister exception still stand in light of the Supreme Court’s
    decision in Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of
    Oregon v. Smith, 
    494 U.S. 872
    , 
    110 S. Ct. 1595
    , 
    108 L. Ed. 2d 876
    (1990).          To resolve this question, we start by reviewing McClure
    and move from that case forward.
    A.
    In 1972, this Court was asked whether Mrs. Billie McClure, a
    Salvation Army officer alleging discrimination on the basis of her
    sex, could state a claim against the Salvation Army under Title VII
    of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.                  
    McClure, 460 F.2d at 554-57
    .
    Relying in part upon the findings of the district court, this Court
    determined that the Salvation Army was an “employer” under Title
    VII,       and    that   the   Salvation   Army    was   engaged    in   interstate
    commerce.         
    Id. Therefore, the
    Court determined that the Salvation
    Army fell within the general coverage of Title VII.                  
    Id. The Court
    also determined that the Salvation Army was a church
    and that Mrs. McClure was an ordained minister within that church.
    These findings required the Court to address two further questions:
    Was the Salvation Army exempt from Title VII under Section 702's
    3
    Courts have called this exception both the church-minister
    exception and the ministerial exception.      We use both terms
    interchangeably.
    6
    religious exemption?    If not, did the First Amendment exempt the
    Salvation Army’s treatment of Mrs. McClure from federal review
    under Title VII?
    In answering the first question, the Court concluded that
    although Section 702 exempts religious organizations from Title
    VII’s coverage for religious discrimination, it does not provide a
    blanket   exemption   for   all   discrimination.     Title   VII   still
    prohibits a religious organization from discriminating on the basis
    of race, color, sex, or national origin.     
    Id. Because Mrs.
    McClure
    was alleging discrimination on the basis of her sex, this Court
    held that her claim did not fall within the Section 702 exemption.
    After determining that Mrs. McClure’s claim fell within the
    statutory coverage of Title VII, the Court addressed whether the
    Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment permitted such a claim
    by a minister against her church.       The Court began by noting that
    the First Amendment has built a “wall of separation” between church
    and state.   
    Id. After describing
    this wall, the Court stated:
    Only in rare instances where a “compelling state interest in
    the regulation of a subject within the State’s constitutional
    power to regulate” is shown can a court uphold state action
    which imposes even an “incidental burden” on the free exercise
    of religion. In this highly sensitive constitutional area
    “‘[o]nly the gravest abuses, endangering paramount interests,
    give occasion for permissible limitation.’”       Sherbert v.
    Verner, 
    374 U.S. 398
    , 
    83 S. Ct. 1790
    , 
    10 L. Ed. 2d 965
         (1963).4
    This Court then emphasized the importance of the relationship
    4
    This reference to the “compelling state interest” test set
    forth in Sherbert will become important in light of later Supreme
    Court decisions.
    7
    between an organized church and its ministers, describing it as the
    church’s “lifeblood.”         
    McClure, 460 F.2d at 558-59
    .                  The Court
    reviewed a series of cases in which the Supreme Court had placed
    matters   of    church      government       and    administration        beyond    the
    regulation     of   civil    authorities.          
    Id. at 559-60
        (citing   and
    describing Watson v. Jones, 80 U.S. (13 Wall.) 679, 
    20 L. Ed. 666
    (1871) (affirming state court decision not to become involved in
    factional    dispute     within   church);         Gonzalez    v.   Roman    Catholic
    Archbishop of Manila, 
    280 U.S. 1
    , 
    50 S. Ct. 5
    , 
    74 L. Ed. 131
    (1929)
    (declining, absent fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness, to involve
    secular courts in matters purely ecclesiastical); Kedroff v. St.
    Nicholas Cathedral, 
    344 U.S. 94
    , 
    73 S. Ct. 143
    , 
    97 L. Ed. 120
    (1952) (holding that legislation transferring control of Russian
    Orthodox churches from Patriarch of Moscow to convention of North
    American churches is unconstitutional interference with the free
    exercise of religion); Kreshik v. St. Nicholas Cathedral, 
    363 U.S. 190
    , 
    80 S. Ct. 1037
    , 
    4 L. Ed. 2d 1140
    (1960) (overturning, as
    unconstitutional involvement in matters of church administration,
    state court ruling that Patriarch of Moscow did not control Russian
    Orthodox churches within North America); Presbyterian Church v.
    Mary Elizabeth Blue Hull Memorial Presbyterian Church, 
    393 U.S. 440
    , 
    89 S. Ct. 601
    , 
    21 L. Ed. 2d 658
    (1969) (warning against civil
    court involvement in church property litigation)).
    After reviewing this Supreme Court precedent, the McClure
    Court   determined     that    applying       Title      VII   to   the    employment
    relationship between the Salvation Army and Mrs. McClure “would
    8
    involve an investigation and review . . . [that] would . . . cause
    the State to intrude upon matters of church administration and
    government which have so many times before been proclaimed to be
    matters of a singular ecclesiastical concern.”              
    McClure, 460 F.2d at 560
    .     Thus, the Court held that applying Title VII to the
    relationship under consideration “would result in an encroachment
    by the State into an area of religious freedom which it is
    forbidden to enter by the principles of the free exercise clause of
    the First Amendment.”          
    Id. The Court
    therefore affirmed the
    district court’s dismissal of Mrs. McClure’s claim.
    Most   of   our   sister    circuits     adopted   the    church-minister
    exception articulated in McClure.            See, e.g., Natal v. Christian
    and Missionary Alliance, 
    878 F.2d 1575
    , 1577-78 (1st Cir. 1989);
    Rayburn v. General Conf. of Seventh-day Adventists, 
    772 F.2d 1164
    ,
    1168-69 (4th Cir. 1985); Hutchinson v. Thomas, 
    789 F.2d 392
    , 393
    (6th Cir.    1986);    Young    v.   Northern    Illinois     Conf.   of   United
    Methodist Church, 
    21 F.3d 184
    , 185 (7th Cir. 1994); Scharon v. St.
    Luke’s Episcopal Presbyterian Hosp., 
    929 F.2d 360
    , 363 (8th Cir.
    1991); Minker v. Baltimore Annual Conf. of United Methodist Church,
    
    894 F.2d 1354
    , 1358 (D.C. Cir. 1990).            Although the Supreme Court
    itself has never adopted the McClure exception, it is the law of
    this circuit and much of the rest of the country.
    B.
    Reverend Combs contends in this appeal that the McClure
    church-minister exception cannot stand in light of the Supreme
    Court’s   decision     in   Employment      Division,   Department    of   Human
    9
    Resources of Oregon v. Smith, 
    494 U.S. 872
    , 
    110 S. Ct. 1595
    , 108 L.
    Ed. 2d 876 (1990).
    In Smith, Alfred Smith and Galen Black were fired by their
    employer because of their sacramental use of peyote--a controlled
    substance under Oregon law--within the Native American Church.
    Oregon denied unemployment benefits to Smith and Black because they
    were terminated for “misconduct”--a violation of Oregon criminal
    law.    Smith and Black argued that the Free Exercise Clause of the
    First Amendment prohibited Oregon from denying them benefits solely
    because they ingested peyote for sacramental purposes. 
    Id. at 874-
    77, 110 S. Ct. at 1597-99
    .      In order to resolve this issue, the
    Supreme   Court   considered   whether     Oregon   was   constitutionally
    permitted to include the religious use of peyote within its general
    criminal prohibition of that drug.        
    Id. at 874,
    110 S. Ct. at 1597.
    The Supreme Court determined that Oregon’s prohibition on all
    peyote use did not violate the First Amendment: “the right of free
    exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply
    with a valid and neutral law of general applicability on the ground
    that the law proscribes (or prescribes) conduct that his religion
    prescribes (or proscribes).”         
    Id. at 879,
    110 S. Ct. at 1600
    (citations and internal quotation marks omitted).           In arriving at
    this   conclusion,   the   Supreme   Court   specifically    rejected   the
    “compelling state interest” test set forth in Sherbert v. Verner,
    
    374 U.S. 398
    , 
    83 S. Ct. 1790
    , 
    10 L. Ed. 2d 965
    (1963).          The Court
    then held that because Oregon was constitutionally permitted to
    prohibit Smith’s and Black’s ingestion of peyote, Oregon was also
    10
    constitutionally permitted to deny them unemployment benefits when
    their dismissal resulted from their use of the drug.         
    Smith, 494 U.S. at 890
    , 110 S. Ct. at 1606.
    Congress attempted to reverse Smith legislatively by passing
    the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 (“RFRA”), Pub. L. No.
    103-141, 107 Stat. 1488, codified at 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb et seq.
    (1994), which granted religious organizations broad immunity from
    neutrally applicable laws.   One of the stated goals of RFRA was to
    restore the compelling interest test from Sherbert that the Supreme
    Court had rejected in Smith.
    The Supreme Court, however, held RFRA to be unconstitutional.
    In its 1997 decision in City of Boerne v. Flores, 
    521 U.S. 507
    , 
    117 S. Ct. 2157
    , 
    138 L. Ed. 2d 624
    (1997), the Supreme Court adopted
    its earlier analysis in Smith.    In a passage now quoted by Reverend
    Combs, the Court stated, “When the exercise of religion has been
    burdened in an incidental way by a law of general application, it
    does not follow that the persons affected have been burdened more
    than other citizens, let alone burdened because of their religious
    beliefs.”   
    Id. at --,
    117 S. Ct. at 2171.
    Reverend Combs’s argument that McClure cannot stand in light
    of the Supreme Court’s decisions in Smith and Boerne is relatively
    straightforward:   First, in Smith and Boerne, the Supreme Court
    held that the First Amendment does not bar the application of
    facially neutral laws even when these laws burden the exercise of
    religion.     Second,   McClure    was   based   on   the   now-rejected
    “compelling interest” test.       For these reasons, Reverend Combs
    11
    argues that McClure no longer controls and therefore she should be
    permitted to pursue her Title VII discrimination claim against
    First United and the Central Texas Conference.
    1.
    A   well-reasoned    opinion   from    the   D.C.   Circuit   recently
    considered the precise question presented to us.           In   E.E.O.C. v.
    Catholic University, 
    83 F.3d 455
    (D.C. Cir. 1996), that court was
    asked whether, in light of Smith, a professor who was also a
    Catholic nun could sue Catholic University for sex discrimination
    in the denial of her application for tenure.5            In resolving this
    issue, the D.C. Circuit addressed the post-Smith validity of the
    ministerial exception.6
    The D.C. Circuit began its analysis by making the important
    distinction between two different strands of free exercise law.
    The court stated, “government action may burden the free exercise
    of religion, in violation of the First Amendment, in two quite
    different ways: by interfering with a believer’s ability to observe
    the commands or practices of his faith, . . . and by encroaching on
    the ability of a church to manage its internal affairs.”             
    Id. at 460
    (internal citations omitted).          The court emphasized that the
    Supreme Court has shown a particular reluctance to interfere with
    5
    The D.C. Circuit determined that the nun, Sister McDonough,
    was included within the coverage of the ministerial exception.
    Catholic 
    University, 83 F.3d at 463-64
    .
    6
    The D.C. Circuit focuses on both McClure and Minker v.
    Baltimore Annual Conference of United Methodist Church, 
    894 F.2d 1354
    , 1358 (D.C. Cir. 1990), in which the D.C. Circuit adopted the
    ministerial exception.
    12
    a church’s selection of its own clergy.        
    Id. (citing Gonzalez
    v.
    Roman Catholic Archbishop of Manila, 
    280 U.S. 1
    , 16, 
    50 S. Ct. 5
    ,
    7-8, 
    74 L. Ed. 131
    (1929); Serbian Eastern Orthodox Diocese v.
    Milivojevich, 
    426 U.S. 696
    , 717, 
    96 S. Ct. 2372
    , 2384, 
    49 L. Ed. 2d 151
    (1976)).
    The court concluded that Smith did not address the Free
    Exercise   Clause’s   protection   to   a   church   against   government
    encroachment into the church’s internal management.              Catholic
    
    University, 83 F.3d at 461
    .        Rather, Smith only addressed the
    strand of Free Exercise Clause protection afforded an individual to
    practice his faith. Thus, the Catholic University court determined
    that the language in Smith that the plaintiff relied on--“the right
    of free exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation
    to comply with a valid and neutral law of general applicability .
    . . ,” Smith, 494 U.S. at 
    879, 110 S. Ct. at 1600
    --did not mean
    that a church, as opposed to an individual, is never entitled to
    relief from a neutral law of general application.
    The D.C. Circuit provided two main reasons for its conclusion.
    First, the court stated that:
    [T]he burden on free exercise that is addressed by the
    ministerial exception is of a fundamentally different
    character from that at issue in Smith and in the cases cited
    by the [Supreme] Court in support of its holding.          The
    ministerial exception is not invoked to protect the freedom of
    an individual to observe a particular command or practice of
    his church. Rather it is designed to protect the freedom of
    the church to select those who will carry out its religious
    mission. Moreover, the ministerial exception does not present
    the dangers warned of in Smith. Protecting the authority of
    a church to select its own ministers free of government
    interference does not empower a member of that church, by
    virtue of his beliefs, to become a law unto himself. Nor does
    13
    the exception require judges to determine the centrality of
    religious beliefs before applying a “compelling interest” test
    in the free exercise field.
    Catholic 
    University, 83 F.3d at 462
    (internal quotation marks and
    internal citations omitted).
    Second, the D.C. Circuit acknowledged that the Supreme Court
    had rejected the “compelling interest” test cited by some courts
    (including McClure) when invoking the ministerial exception.           The
    court observed, however, that many courts applying the exception
    rely on a long line of Supreme Court cases standing for the
    fundamental proposition that churches should be able to “decide for
    themselves,    free   from   state   interference,   matters   of   church
    government as well as those of faith and doctrine.”             Catholic
    
    University, 83 F.3d at 462
    (quoting 
    Kedroff, 344 U.S. at 116
    , 73 S.
    Ct. at 154).    The D.C. Circuit concluded, “we cannot believe that
    the Supreme Court in Smith intended to qualify this century-old
    affirmation of a church’s sovereignty over its own affairs.”
    Catholic 
    University, 83 F.3d at 463
    .
    2.
    We agree with both the reasoning and the conclusion of the
    D.C. Circuit.    Especially important is that court’s distinction
    between the two strands of free exercise cases--restrictions on an
    individual’s actions that are based on religious beliefs and
    encroachments on the ability of a church to manage its internal
    affairs.   Reverend Combs acknowledges this distinction, but argues
    that it does not determine the outcome of this case.            Instead,
    Reverend Combs contends that Smith and Boerne indicate that the
    14
    constitutional protection for religious freedom is impermissibly
    broadened when it grants churches immunity from employment actions
    by clergy when such actions are not based on questions of religious
    dogma or ecclesiastical law.         We disagree.
    Smith’s language is clearly directed at the first strand of
    free exercise law, where an individual contends that, because of
    his religious beliefs, he should not be required to conform with
    generally applicable laws.      The concerns raised in Smith are quite
    different from the concerns raised by Reverend Combs’s case, which
    pertains to interference in internal church government.              We concur
    wholeheartedly with the D.C. Circuit’s conclusion that Smith, which
    concerned individual free exercise, did not purport to overturn a
    century of precedent protecting the church against governmental
    interference in selecting its ministers.
    We also disagree with Reverend Combs’s argument that McClure
    is no longer good law because it relied on the “compelling state
    interest” test rejected by the Supreme Court in Smith.           Our review
    of   McClure   reveals   that   although      this   Court   presented      the
    “compelling state interest” test in its general discussion of First
    Amendment law, the test is never applied or even mentioned later in
    the opinion.   Thus, it is unclear how much this Court was actually
    relying on this test.      Moreover, even if the McClure panel was
    relying on the Sherbert test, we hold that the church-minister
    exception survives Sherbert’s demise. As the D.C. Circuit observed
    in Catholic University, the primary doctrinal underpinning of the
    church-minister   exception     is    not   the   Sherbert   test,    but   the
    15
    principle that churches must be free “to decide for themselves,
    free from state interference, matters of church government as well
    as those of faith and doctrine.”         
    Kedroff, 344 U.S. at 116
    , 73 S.
    Ct. at 154 (cited by this Court in 
    McClure, 460 F.3d at 560
    , and by
    the D.C. Circuit in Catholic 
    University, 83 F.3d at 462
    ).              This
    fundamental     right   of   churches    to   be   free   from   government
    interference in their internal management and administration has
    not been affected by the Supreme Court’s decision in Smith and the
    demise of Sherbert.
    3.
    The final point to address is Reverend Combs’s argument that
    Catholic University is distinguishable from this case because a
    resolution of Sister McDonough’s claim in Catholic University would
    have required an evaluation of church doctrine, while there would
    be no such need in this case.
    Sister McDonough was denied tenure at Catholic University at
    least in part because the reviewing committees decided that her
    teaching and scholarship failed to meet the standards required of
    a tenured member of Catholic University’s Canon Law Faculty.
    Indeed at trial, the parties introduced an “extensive body of
    conflicting testimony” concerning the quality of Sister McDonough’s
    publications.    Catholic 
    University, 83 F.3d at 465
    .        We agree that
    the district court would have been placed in an untenable position
    had it been required to evaluate the merits of Sister McDonough’s
    canon law scholarship.       Having a civil court determine the merits
    of canon law scholarship would be in violent opposition to the
    16
    constitutional principle of the separation of church and state.
    See Presbyterian Church v. Mary Elizabeth Blue Hill Memorial
    Presbyterian Church, 
    393 U.S. 440
    , 445, 
    89 S. Ct. 601
    , 604, 21 L.
    Ed. 2d 658 (1969) (civil courts are not permitted to determine
    ecclesiastical questions).      Reverend Combs argues that because the
    resolution of her claim, in contrast to that of Sister McDonough,
    requires no evaluation or interpretation of religious doctrine, her
    claim should be allowed to proceed.
    Not long after our decision in McClure, this Court rejected a
    similar argument in Simpson v. Wells Lamont Corp., 
    494 F.2d 490
    (5th Cir. 1974).7     As this Court observed in Simpson, the First
    Amendment concerns are 
    two-fold. 494 F.2d at 493-94
    .    The first
    concern is that secular authorities would be involved in evaluating
    or   interpreting   religious   doctrine.     
    Id. The second
      quite
    independent   concern    is     that    in   investigating    employment
    discrimination claims by ministers against their church, secular
    authorities would necessarily intrude into church governance in a
    manner that would be inherently coercive, even if the alleged
    discrimination were purely nondoctrinal.       
    Id. This second
    concern
    is the one present here.      This second concern alone is enough to
    bar the involvement of the civil courts.
    7
    In Simpson, the plaintiff argued that the McClure exception
    should not apply to his racial discrimination claim because it was
    unrelated to church dogma.     This Court disagreed, however, and
    determined that the First Amendment protection relative to the
    relationship between a church and a minister extended beyond purely
    dogmatic issues. 
    Id. at 493-94;
    see also Kedroff v. St. Nicholas
    Cathedral, 
    344 U.S. 94
    , 116, 
    73 S. Ct. 143
    , 154-55, 
    97 L. Ed. 120
    (1953).
    17
    In short, we cannot conceive how the federal judiciary could
    determine whether an employment decision concerning a minister was
    based on legitimate or illegitimate grounds without inserting
    ourselves into a realm where the Constitution forbids us to tread,
    the internal management of a church.
    Conclusion
    This case involves the interrelationship between two important
    governmental directives--the congressional mandate to eliminate
    discrimination in the workplace and the constitutional mandate to
    preserve the separation of church and state.              As this Court
    previously observed in McClure, both of these mandates cannot
    always be followed.      In such circumstances, the constitutional
    mandate must override the mandate that is merely congressional.
    Thus, we are persuaded that the First Amendment continues to give
    the church the right to select its ministers free from Title VII’s
    restrictions.
    Because    the   district    court   correctly   dismissed   Reverend
    Combs’s suit, its judgment is AFFIRMED.
    18