United States v. Gould , 326 F.3d 651 ( 2004 )


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  •                                                                            United States Court of Appeals
    Fifth Circuit
    F I L E D
    REVISED APRIL 12, 2004                                March 24, 2004
    IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT                             Charles R. Fulbruge III
    Clerk
    No. 02-30629
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
    Plaintiff-Appellant,
    versus
    KELLY DONALD GOULD,
    Defendant-Appellee.
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Middle District of Louisiana
    Before KING, Chief Judge, GARWOOD, JOLLY, HIGGINBOTHAM, DAVIS,
    JONES, SMITH, WIENER, BARKSDALE, EMILIO M. GARZA, DEMOSS,
    BENAVIDES, STEWART, DENNIS, CLEMENT and PRADO, Circuit Judges.*
    GARWOOD, Circuit Judge:
    In    this     felon-in-possession             prosecution        (18     U.S.C.      §
    922(g)(1)), the Government appeals the district court’s granting of
    the motion to suppress filed by defendant-appellee Kelly Donald
    *
    Judge Pickering was not a member of the court when this case was submitted to the court
    en banc and did not participate in the decision.
    Gould (Gould).
    Louisiana deputy sheriffs, having received on October 17,
    2000, a telephone warning that Gould, known to be a convicted felon
    with a reputation for violence, was planning to kill two local
    judges, went that same evening to the approximately 14 x 60 foot
    trailer where Gould lived to talk to him, not then intending to
    arrest him.    The officers, who had neither a search nor an arrest
    warrant, were admitted by another resident of the trailer, Dennis
    Cabral, who said Gould was asleep in his bedroom.       The officers
    entered and proceeded down the hall towards the bedroom Cabral had
    indicated.    The bedroom door was open, but the officers did not see
    Gould, and they then conducted a brief protective sweep for him,
    looking under the bed and opening the door to each of the two
    bedroom closets, in one of which they saw in plain view, but did
    not then seize, three rifles.    They promptly then ran outside and
    later found Gould hiding in the woods.     In subsequent questioning
    Gould stated he was keeping the rifles for their owner, a female
    acquaintance.     Gould was then arrested, executed a consent to
    search, and the rifles were then seized.
    The district court, granting the motion to suppress the
    weapons, held that although “Cabral had apparent authority to
    consent to the search of the mobile home . . . he had no apparent
    authority to consent to a search of the master bedroom.”         The
    Government sought to invoke the “protective sweep” doctrine of
    
    2 Md. v
    . Buie, 
    110 S. Ct. 1093
    (1990).           However, the district
    court, though recognizing that the officers “needed to locate the
    defendant for their own safety, so they could make sure he did not
    launch a surprise attack from a hidden location,” construed our
    opinion in United States v. Wilson, 
    36 F.3d 1298
    , 1306 (5th Cir.
    1994), as having “explicitly restricted the use of the ‘protective
    sweep’ exception to the warrant requirement to searches incident to
    arrest,” and thus held that “[b]ecause the ‘protective sweep’ was
    not conducted as an incident to arrest, however, the search of the
    closet   in   the   master   bedroom   was   illegal.”    In   denying   the
    government’s    motion   for    reconsideration,    the   district   court
    summarized and confirmed its prior ruling:
    “[T]his court noted the defendant’s violent past, and did
    not dispute that the officers were justified in viewing
    the defendant as a violent and potentially dangerous
    individual.   Furthermore, the officers’ search of the
    master bedroom did not exceed the acceptable scope of a
    protective sweep, which extends only to a cursory
    inspection of those spaces where a person may be found,
    and lasts no longer than is necessary to dispel the
    reasonable suspicion of danger.     However, this court
    found that the initial search was illegal, because it did
    not meet the requirement that a protective sweep must be
    incident to an arrest.”
    A panel of this court affirmed.         United States v. Gould, 
    326 F.3d 651
    (5th Cir. 2003).      The panel concluded that it was bound by
    Wilson, the most reasonable reading of which was that it laid down
    an across-the-board, bright-line rule that, whatever the other
    circumstances of a particular case might be, the “protective sweep”
    doctrine was always inapplicable if the sweep was not incident to
    3
    an arrest.      Gould at 654-55.       The panel, however, suggested the
    appropriateness of considering en banc “whether this Circuit should
    adhere to Wilson’s ipso facto disallowance of all protective sweeps
    not incident to an arrest.”       
    Id. at 655,
    et seq.     We then voted the
    case en banc.         United States v. Gould, 
    335 F.3d 376
    (5th Cir.
    2003).
    I.
    WHETHER A PROTECTIVE SWEEP MUST ALWAYS BE INCIDENT TO AN ARREST
    We turn initially to the primary issue now before us, namely
    whether there is an across-the-board, hard and fast per se rule
    that a protective sweep can be valid only if conducted incident to
    an arrest.      We hold there is not.
    We begin, of course, with the Supreme Court’s opinion in Buie.
    And that opinion does, indeed, begin with the statement that “[a]
    ‘protective sweep’ is a quick and limited search of premises,
    incident to an arrest and conducted to protect the safety of police
    officers or others.”        
    Id. at 1094.
         But there was no dispute in
    Buie that the sweep was incidental to arrest, and nothing in Buie
    states   that    if   the   officers   were   otherwise   lawfully   in   the
    defendant’s home and faced with a similar danger such a sweep would
    have been illegal.       The Buie Court had no occasion to so state as
    the sweep there was indisputably incident to the arrest.             We note
    that in United States v. Knights, 
    122 S. Ct. 587
    (2001), likewise a
    home search case, the Court describes as “dubious logic” the
    4
    argument “that an opinion upholding the constitutionality of a
    particular search implicitly holds unconstitutional any search that
    is not like it.”        
    Id. at 590.
    We do not suggest that Buie did not emphasize the fact of
    arrest.     It indeed did.     But it did so because the arrest exposed
    the officers to danger.         Buie at 1098.      However, Buie gives no
    indication that circumstances other than arrest which expose police
    officers to a comparable degree of danger could not also justify a
    similar protective response (at least where those circumstances are
    not the product of police illegality or misconduct).             Similarly,
    Buie notes that the arrest there was pursuant to a warrant, so the
    officers were lawfully on the premises for a proper purpose.              
    Id. at 1096
    (citing Payton v. New York, 
    100 S. Ct. 1371
    (1980)) and
    1097. But nothing in Buie suggests that the result would have been
    different had the police otherwise properly entered the house as,
    for example, pursuant to a proper consent rather than a warrant.
    Cf. Payton at 1374-75 (“We now . . . hold that the Fourth Amendment
    .   .   .   prohibits    the   police   from   making   a   warrantless   and
    nonconsensual entry into a suspect’s home in order to make a
    routine felony arrest”) and 1378 (“we are dealing with entries into
    homes made without the consent of any occupant”).            Moreover, Buie
    makes clear that neither the arrest nor the warrant sufficed to
    justify the sweep there, which occurred after the arrest and was of
    an area of the home well removed from the place of arrest, an area
    5
    in which the defendant retained a Fourth Amendment protected
    privacy interest.       
    Id. at 1097,
    1099 (citing the holding in Chimel
    v. California, 
    89 S. Ct. 2034
    (1969), that a search incident to an
    in-home arrest may not extend beyond the area from within which the
    arrestee might then obtain a weapon).            Rather, the sweep in Buie
    was    evaluated   on    a    general   Fourth   Amendment       reasonableness
    standard, and was justified, in reliance on the principles of Terry
    v. Ohio, 
    88 S. Ct. 1868
    (1968), and Michigan v. Long, 
    103 S. Ct. 3469
    (1983), where there was reasonable suspicion that the area swept
    harbored a person posing a danger to the officers present and the
    sweep was limited to a cursory inspection of places where a person
    may be found and lasted no longer than necessary to dispel the
    reasonable suspicion of danger nor longer than what it takes to
    complete the arrest and leave the house.           Buie at 1096-99.
    In Buie, two men, one wearing a red running suit, committed an
    armed robbery and later that day an arrest warrant respecting that
    offense was issued for Buie and another man (no search warrant was
    ever   issued).     Two      days   thereafter   the   police,    by   having   a
    telephone call made to Buie’s house which was answered first by a
    female and then by Buie, ascertained that Buie was at home, and
    then proceeded to his house, entered it and looked for Buie on the
    first and second floors.        Then Officer Rozar went to the top of the
    basement stairs and shouted into the basement stating “‘this is the
    police’” and “ordering anyone down there to come out.”                   
    Id. at 6
    1095.   Then,
    “Buie emerged from the basement.      He was arrested,
    searched and handcuffed by Rozar. Thereafter, Detective
    Joseph Frolich entered the basement ‘in case there was
    someone else’ down there. He noticed a red running suit
    lying in plain view on a stack of clothing and seized
    it.” 
    Id. (emphasis added).
    The   Maryland      Court    of     Appeals      reversed     Buie’s     robbery
    conviction holding that the trial court erred by denying his motion
    to   suppress   the    running     suit    because      Frolich’s    sweep     of   the
    basement was supported neither by a search warrant nor by probable
    cause to believe that a serious and demonstrable potentiality for
    danger existed there; reasonable suspicion did not suffice.                         Buie
    v. State, 
    550 A.2d 79
    (Md. 1988).                  The Supreme Court vacated and
    remanded, holding that reasonable suspicion sufficed, and that
    probable cause was not required, for such a protective sweep.
    
    Buie, 110 S. Ct. at 1094-95
    .
    The   Supreme    Court,     though       acknowledging      that   the   arrest
    warrant authorized the police to search for Buie anywhere in the
    house, including the basement, “until the point of Buie’s arrest,”
    
    id. at 1096
    (emphasis added), nevertheless expressly recognized
    that “[o]nce he [Buie] was found, however, the search for him was
    over, and there was no longer that particular justification for
    entering any rooms [i.e., the basement] that had not yet been
    searched”    and   that    “Buie    had”       a    Fourth   Amendment    protected
    “expectation of privacy in those remaining areas of his house.”
    7
    
    Id. at 1097.
    This conclusion likewise plainly followed from Chimel
    v. California, 
    89 S. Ct. 752
    (1969), which, as Buie noted, “held
    that in the absence of a search warrant, the justifiable search
    incident   to    an   in-home    arrest      could    not   extend   beyond   the
    arrestee’s person and the area from within which the arrestee might
    have obtained a weapon.”             Buie at 1099.      See also 
    id. at 1098
    (rejecting argument “that entering rooms not examined prior to the
    arrest is a de minimis intrusion that may be disregarded”).
    The Buie Court thus noted that at “[i]ssue in this case is
    what level of justification the Fourth Amendment required before
    Detective Frolich could legally enter the basement to see if
    someone else was there.”         
    Id. at 1096
    .        To resolve that issue the
    Court invoked the general reasonableness standard of the Fourth
    Amendment, balancing the intrusion on the protected interests
    against    the   promotion      of    legitimate      governmental   interests,
    particularly as guided by Terry and Michigan v. Long.                 Buie thus
    states:
    “It goes without saying that the Fourth Amendment
    bars only unreasonable searches and seizures [citation
    omitted].     Our cases show that in determining
    reasonableness, we have balanced the intrusion on the
    individual’s Fourth Amendment interests against its
    promotion   of   legitimate    governmental   interests.
    [citations omitted]. Under this test, a search of the
    house or office is generally not reasonable without a
    warrant issued on probable cause.       There are other
    contexts, however, where the public interest is such that
    neither a warrant nor probable cause is required.
    [citations omitted].
    8
    The Terry case is most instructive for present
    purposes. . . . Applying that balancing test, it was held
    that although a frisk for weapons ‘constitutes a severe,
    though   brief,   intrusion   upon   cherished   personal
    security,’ [citation omitted] such a frisk is reasonable
    when weighed against the ‘need for law enforcement
    officers to protect themselves and other prospective
    victims of violence in situations where they may lack
    probable cause for an arrest.’
    . . .
    The [Michigan v.] Long Court expressly rejected the
    contention that Terry restricted preventative searches to
    the person of a detained suspect. [citation omitted]. In
    a sense, Long authorized a ‘frisk’ of an automobile for
    weapons.
    The ingredients to apply the balance struck in Terry
    and Long are present in this case. . . . In Terry and
    Long we were concerned with the immediate interest of the
    police officers in taking steps to assure themselves that
    the persons with whom they were dealing were not armed
    with, or able to gain immediate control of, a weapon that
    could unexpectedly and fatally be used against them. In
    the instant case, there is an analogous interest of the
    officers in taking steps to assure themselves that the
    house in which a suspect is being, or has just been,
    arrested is not harboring other persons who are dangerous
    and who could unexpectedly launch an attack. . . .
    . . . we hold that there must be articulable facts which,
    taken together with the rational inferences from those
    facts, would warrant a reasonably prudent officer in
    believing that the area to be swept harbors an individual
    posing a danger to those on the arrest scene. This is no
    more and no less than was required in Terry and Long, and
    as in those cases, we think this balance is the proper
    one.”     Buie at 1096-98 (emphases added; footnote
    omitted).1
    1
    Buie also recognizes as a special category of permissible sweep, one without even
    reasonable suspicion, of “closets and other spaces immediately adjoining the place of arrest from
    within which an attack could be immediately launched.” 
    Id. at 1098
    (emphasis added). The Buie
    opinion language concerning the requirement for reasonable suspicion appearing in the
    penultimate sentence of the quotation set out in the text above applies to sweeps of areas
    9
    We recognize that, as stated in United States v. United States
    District Court, 
    92 S. Ct. 2125
    , 2134 (1972), and reiterated in
    Payton at 1379-80, 82, “physical entry of the home is the chief
    evil against which the wording of the Fourth Amendment is directed”
    and “the Fourth Amendment has drawn a firm line at the entrance to
    the house.”2        However, Buie makes clear that that worthy principle
    does not preclude application in the in-home sweep context of the
    general         reasonableness        standard        calculated        by    balancing       the
    intrusion on Fourth Amendment interests against the promotion of
    legitimate        governmental        interests,        including        those     of    officer
    safety.         Indeed, Buie expressly noted and rejected the Maryland
    Court      of    Appeals’     refusal       to    apply     the    reasonable         suspicion
    standard of Terry and Long on the ground that “the sanctity of the
    home” required a more demanding standard.                         
    Id. at 1096
    .           We also
    note that recently the Supreme Court in Knights applied the same
    “[b]eyond” those “immediately adjoining the place of arrest.” 
    Id. at 1098
    (emphasis added). No
    one has ever contended that the sweep in the present case is within that special category as to
    which not even reasonable suspicion is required (and which may or may not depend on the fact of
    arrest). We accordingly do not further address this special category and this opinion’s subsequent
    discussion of protective sweeps generally should be understood as not referring to it.
    2
    The Fourth Amendment provides:
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,
    against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants
    shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
    particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be
    seized.”
    10
    general reasonableness, balancing test in upholding a home search,
    stating        “[t]he        touchstone          of      the      Fourth        Amendment         is
    reasonableness, and the reasonableness of a search is determined
    ‘by assessing, on the one hand, the degree to which it intrudes
    upon an individual’s privacy and, on the other, the degree to which
    it    is    needed       for    the     promotion         of    legitimate         governmental
    interests.’” Knights at 591 (quoting Wyoming v. Houghton, 119 S.
    Ct. 1297, 1300 (1999)).3
    Applying this balancing principle, and mindful of Buie’s heavy
    reliance on Terry and Long, neither of which involved an arrest, we
    hold that arrest is not always, or per se, an indispensable element
    of an in-home protective sweep, and that although arrest may be
    highly relevant, particularly as tending to show the requisite
    potential of danger to the officers, that danger may also be
    established by other circumstances. We note in this connection the
    statements in Long that “if a suspect is ‘dangerous,’ he is no less
    dangerous simply because he is not arrested”, 
    id. at 3481,
    and “the
    officer remains particularly vulnerable in part because a full
    custodial arrest has not been effected.”                            
    Id. at 3482
    (emphasis
    3
    Knights upheld a reasonable suspicion based law-enforcement (nonprobation related)
    investigative search without a warrant of a probationer’s home where a condition of probation
    was a blanket agreement to consent to searches.
    We also observe that in Terry, the Court stated that the “inestimable right of personal
    security belongs as much to the citizen on the streets of our cities as to the homeowner closeted in
    his study to dispose of his secret affairs,” Terry at 1873, and (as Buie 
    noted, 110 S. Ct. at 1098
    ), it
    rejected the notion that the weapons pat-down there was merely a “petty indignity,” stating that,
    to the contrary, it was “a serious intrusion upon the sanctity of the person.” 
    Id. at 1877.
    11
    added).      Buie does state that “the risk of danger in the context of
    an arrest in the home is as great as, if not greater than, it is in
    an on-the-street or roadside investigatory context” such as in
    Terry or Long.            Buie at 1098.            Buie gives two reasons for that
    conclusion:        first,        in   the    Terry     and     Long     frisk      context      the
    confrontation has “not escalated to the point of arrest” which
    involves       “taking       a    person     into      custody      for     the    purpose       of
    prosecuting him,” and, second:
    “unlike an encounter on the street or along a highway, an
    in-home arrest puts the officer at the disadvantage of
    being on his adversary’s ‘turf.’ An ambush in a confined
    setting of unknown configuration is more to be feared
    than it is in open, more familiar surroundings.” 
    Id. While the
    first reason focuses on arrest, the second does not and
    seems equally applicable to a police investigatory confrontation in
    the home as to an in-home arrest.                        Accordingly, in the in-home
    context      it    appears       clear      that      even   without       an     arrest     other
    circumstances can give rise to equally reasonable suspicion of
    equally serious risk of danger of officers being ambushed by a
    hidden person as would be the case were there an arrest.4
    4
    Knowles v. Iowa, 
    119 S. Ct. 484
    (1998), relied on by Gould, does not point in a contrary
    direction. There the Court held that a routine traffic stop of an automobile for speeding, for
    which no arrest was made and only a citation was issued–where there was no reasonable suspicion
    of danger–“does not by itself justify . . . a full field-type search” of the car, even though “a full
    search of the passenger compartment” would be authorized “pursuant to a custodial arrest.” 
    Id. at 488
    (emphasis added). There the Court expressly recognized that with reasonable suspicion of
    danger the officer could conduct a “patdown” both of any occupant of the vehicle and “of the
    [vehicle’s] passenger compart” under Terry and Long. 
    Id. All Knowles
    says is that while arrest
    alone may often be enough to give rise to meaningful concern for officer safety (or destruction of
    evidence), in the absence of arrest there must be some other circumstances giving rise to
    12
    Several decisions of other circuits have upheld an in-home
    Buie protective sweep even though not incident to an arrest.       In
    United States v. Patrick, 
    959 F.2d 991
    (D.C. Cir. 1992), the D.C.
    Circuit dealt, as we do here, with a consent entry case and upheld
    the protective sweep of a bedroom in the apartment which the party
    authorizing entry (the court assumed arguendo) had no right to
    authorize search of, even though the sweep was not incident to an
    arrest.      The court stated:
    “We first note that, even if Smith could not have
    consented to the search of Patrick’s bedroom, he could,
    as lessee of the apartment, unquestionably give the
    police authority to search the rest of it.     Once the
    police were lawfully on the premises, they were
    authorized to conduct a protective sweep based on their
    reasonable belief that one of its inhabitants was
    trafficking in narcotics. . . .We think the holding in
    Buie, notwithstanding the search there was conducted
    pursuant to a warrant and not consent, supports the
    police search here.    Accordingly, the police validly
    entered the bedroom when they looked through the open
    door and saw Patrick inside.” 
    Id. at 996-97
    (emphasis
    added).
    Similarly, in United States v. Taylor, 
    248 F.3d 506
    (6th Cir.
    2001), another consent entry case, the court likewise upheld a
    protective sweep not incident to an arrest, stating:
    “Taylor argues that a protective sweep is authorized
    only when it is made incident to a lawful arrest.
    Therefore, he contends, because Hill had not been
    arrested when the officers made their cursory search of
    Taylor’s apartment, the sweep was per se invalid. In
    contrast, the government argues that while Buie and Biggs
    [United States v. Biggs, 
    70 F.3d 913
    (6th Cir. 1995)]were
    each decided in the factual context of officers making an
    reasonable suspicion of danger.
    13
    arrest, nothing in those opinions indicates that an
    arrest is a mandatory prerequisite for conducting a
    protective sweep of the area. The government further
    points out that the Buie decision was based upon the
    reasoning set forth in the Supreme Court’s earlier
    decisions in Terry and Long, both of which were
    investigative stop cases.
    We believe the               government         presents       the     more
    compelling argument.”             
    Id. at 513.
    In United States v. Garcia, 
    997 F.2d 1273
    (9th Cir. 1993), the
    court similarly upheld a protective sweep in a consent entry case
    where no arrest was made until after the sweep discovered guns in
    plain view.5
    Also noteworthy is United States v. Daoust, 
    916 F.2d 757
    (1st
    Cir. 1990), an opinion by then Judge (now Justice) Breyer.                               There
    the officers, looking through a window into the kitchen of a home,
    observed a particularly described pistol hanging over the kitchen
    sink.       They then procured a search warrant to search for that
    particular pistol.            Armed with that warrant, they went into the
    house, but did not confine themselves to going to the kitchen where
    they       knew   the   gun    described       in   the    warrant      was,     but    rather
    conducted a protective sweep of all the rooms in the house,
    discovering in those other rooms other weapons (not covered by the
    warrant) in plain view.              There was no arrest or attempted arrest.
    The First Circuit held that nevertheless the protective sweep was
    justified under Buie.
    5
    Another consent entry case with a similar result is U.S. v. Koubriti, 
    199 F. Supp. 2d 656
    (E.D. Mich. 2002).
    14
    The cases in which the courts have indicated that protective
    sweeps must always be incident to arrest, are mostly ones involving
    situations where the entry into the house was itself illegal.6
    Having       held     that      an    in-home       protective         sweep       is    not
    necessarily or per se invalid, regardless of other circumstances,
    merely because it is not incident to an arrest, we accordingly
    6
    In U.S. v. Davis, 
    290 F.3d 1239
    (10th Cir. 2002), there was an illegal, warrantless entry
    into the house, which the court held was not justified by exigent circumstances. The
    constitutionality of the protective sweep is addressed only in a brief footnote, n.4 at 1242-43,
    where it is rejected because there was no arrest, quoting the first sentence of Buie, and also
    apparently because it was not narrowly confined to a cursory visual inspection of places where a
    person might be hiding, as required by Buie.
    U.S. v. Reid, 
    226 F.3d 1022
    (9th Cir. 2000), was likewise an illegal entry case, the court
    holding that the consent to entry had been coerced and that there were no exigent circumstances.
    The court went on to observe that protective sweep did not apply because there was no arrest and
    no facts demonstrated that a reasonably prudent officer would have believed that the apartment
    harbored an individual posing a danger to the officers. 
    Id. at 1027.
    This was a split decision, and
    does not cite the Garcia case in which the Ninth Circuit had held that a protective sweep need not
    be incident to an arrest.
    Gould also cites U.S. v. Johnson, 
    170 F.3d 708
    (7th Cir. 1999). That case involved a pat-
    down search and detention of a person after he had stepped out of the apartment, there was no
    entry into the apartment, and “no one had consented to a police entry.” 
    Id. at 719.
    The police
    did not have a warrant and there was “no reason to believe that Johnson [who was patted down]
    was carrying a weapon or any kind of illegal substances at the moment he emerged from the
    apartment, and Johnson himself took no action himself to make them fearful for anyone’s safety.”
    
    Id. at 714.
    Because the detention and pat-down of Johnson was without reasonable suspicion, it
    was held invalid. 
    Id. at 720.
    There were three opinions, including a dissent by Judge Easterbrook
    and a special concurrence by Judge Evans. While the opinion of Judge Wood does contain some
    references to Buie, and the fact that the pat-down of Johnson was neither incident to an arrest nor
    a cursory visual inspection of those places in which a person might be hiding, 
    id. at 716,
    the issues
    and factual context of Johnson make it completely inapposite here.
    15
    disapprove of the language to the contrary in Wilson.7                                  We note,
    however, our agreement with Wilson’s ultimate determination that
    the challenged           search      of    the     wastebasket       and     seizure      of    the
    checkbook in it could not be justified as a protective sweep.                                    In
    the first place, there was no evidence in Wilson indicating any
    danger was posed; Wilson was suspected only of stealing from the
    mail       and   nothing     suggested        he      (or   anyone      else     present)       was
    dangerous or violent or anything of the kind.                         In the second place,
    as Wilson itself properly observes, “the seizure of the checkbook
    from the wastebasket was not within the narrow ambit of a ‘cursory
    visual inspection’ of a place where a person could be hiding.”
    Wilson at 1035-36 (citing 
    Buie, 110 S. Ct. at 1099
    ).8
    Thus, in the present case the district court erred as a matter
    of law in holding, in its understandable reliance on the language
    in Wilson, that a protective sweep could never be valid, regardless
    of other circumstances, unless incident to an arrest, and on that
    sole basis granting the motion to suppress.
    7
    We observe that in Wilson the panel either did not cite or did not have available to it the
    opinions in Patrick, Taylor, Garcia and Daoust. Essentially, Wilson simply assumed that Buie
    always requires that the sweep be incident to arrest.
    8
    Wilson also correctly states that the plain view doctrine did not apply, because the
    checkbook was not in plain view in the bathroom and because the only thing incriminating about
    the checkbook was the names on the checks, and they were not visible because of the checkbook
    cover; the incriminating character of the evidence was not immediately apparent. 
    Id. at 1036.
    16
    II.     OTHER PROTECTIVE SWEEP REQUIREMENTS
    We now turn to the other requirements for a valid in-home
    protective sweep and their applicability here.
    A.    Other requirements generally
    First, it is at least implicit in Buie that although the
    protective sweep may extend to areas of the home where the police
    otherwise (i.e., apart from the protective sweep doctrine) then
    have no right to go, nevertheless when undertaken from within the
    home, the police must not have entered (or remained in) the home
    illegally and their presence within it must be for a legitimate law
    enforcement purpose.9
    Further,       the    protective        sweep      must    be    supported        “by    a
    reasonable, articulable suspicion”, Buie at 1099, “that the area to
    be swept harbors an individual posing a danger to” those on the
    scene.      
    Id. at 1100.
    Next, the legitimate protective sweep may not be “a full
    search” but may be no more than “a cursory inspection of those
    9
    Normally, absent a warrant the police may not enter a home except with consent or in
    “exigent circumstances.” See, e.g., Payton, at 1378; Mincey v. Arizona, 
    98 S. Ct. 2408
    , 2413
    (1978); U.S. v. Jones, 
    239 F.3d 716
    , 719-20 (5th Cir. 2001); U.S. v. Howard, 
    106 F.3d 70
    , 73-75
    (5th Cir. 1997); U.S. v. Rodea, 
    102 F.3d 1401
    , 1404-05, 1408-09 (5th Cir. 1996); U.S. v. Rice,
    
    51 F.3d 495
    , 500-01 (5th Cir. 1995). Whether (or if so to what extent and under what
    conditions) the doctrine of “protective sweep” authorizes a warrantless, non-consensual entry into
    a home that would not be authorized under the more general doctrine of “exigent circumstances”
    is unclear. See, e.g., U.S. v. Wilson, 
    306 F.3d 231
    , 238-39 (5th Cir. 2001); U.S. v. Watson, 
    273 F.3d 599
    , 602-03 (5th Cir. 2001); U.S. v. Merritt, 
    882 F.2d 916
    , 921 (5th Cir. 1989); Kirkpatrick
    v. Butler, 
    870 F.2d 276
    , 281-83 (5th Cir. 1989). We do not address that question here since
    under the district court’s adequately supported findings the officers’ entry into the mobile home
    was legal as pursuant to valid consent.
    17
    spaces where a person may be found.”                       
    Id. at 1099.
    Finally, the sweep is subject to two time limitations. First,
    it may “last[] no longer than is necessary to dispel the reasonable
    suspicion of danger,” id.; and, second, it may last no longer than
    the police are justified in remaining on the premises.                                  See 
    id. (“and in
    any event no longer than it takes to complete the arrest
    and depart the premises”); see also 
    id. at 1098
    (police permitted
    “to take reasonable steps to ensure their safety after, and while
    making, the arrest”).
    B.    Relevant facts and findings here
    1.    Introduction
    In our review of the district court’s suppression order, we
    observe that the only witnesses at the suppression hearing were
    three of the deputy sheriffs who were present on the scene, who
    were called         by    the    Government,         and    Cabral,      the    sole     defense
    witness.       The district court explicitly credited the testimony of
    the deputies and refused to credit Cabral’s.10
    2.    Officers were legally within the mobile home
    The testimony of the officers was to the effect that Cabral
    met them at the entrance to the mobile home, that they told him
    10
    The district court stated “this court finds that the detectives’ version of the events of
    October 17, 2000 is more credible” and “the consistent testimony of these detectives who were
    sequestered during the evidentiary hearing is more credible than the testimony of the defendant’s
    friend and partner [Cabral], who was allegedly involved in the murder plot and who has been
    convicted of several crimes.”
    18
    they were looking for Gould and wanted to speak to him.                                    Cabral
    said that Gould was in his bedroom, indicating where it was, was
    probably asleep, and that they were welcome to come in and check it
    out.    The officers entered, walked toward Gould’s bedroom, noticed
    the door was open but did not see Gould, so conducted a brief
    protective sweep of the bedroom and its two closets, in one of
    which the          guns     were    observed     in   plain     view.11        The     district
    11
    For example, Deputy Ard testified:
    “Q. And you spoke to Mr. Cabral and told him why y’all wanted to be there?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. Okay. As I understand it, he said that Gould was in his bedroom?
    A. Right.
    Q. Did he say it’s okay to go search Kelly Gould’s bedroom?
    A. He said, he’s in his bedroom. You are more than welcome to come in and check it
    out.
    Q. All right. But he specifically talked about being in his bedroom, right? He wasn’t in
    Dennis Cabral’s bedroom?
    A. No. He said, his bedroom – if you looking at the trailer, he’s to the left. He said, his
    bedroom is in the back. He’s in there, and he’s probably asleep.”
    Deputy Brown gave similar testimony, viz:
    “A. . . . We asked him [Cabral] if Kelly Gould was home, and he said, yes, he is.
    I believe he’s asleep in his bedroom, and he pointed toward the north end of the
    trailer where the only bedroom is on that side of the trailer.
    We asked him for permission to come inside the residence to see if Kelly
    Gould was in the trailer. We wanted to speak with him. We did not have any
    intentions of arresting him at that time. We just simply wanted to talk to him
    19
    about the incidents that we’ve talked about so far. He said, sure. No problem.
    Come in.”
    ...
    “Q. Did you in fact enter the trailer at the invitation of Mr. Cabral?
    A. Yes, we did.”
    ...
    “When we entered, we immediately went to the left to the direction where Dennis
    Cabral had pointed to the bedroom, went toward the bedroom door, which is the
    only bedroom on that end of the trailer.
    When we got to the bedroom, the door of the bedroom was open; so looking for
    him strictly for officer safety reasons, due to the allegations of wanting to kill
    police officers, and judges, and those – also the incident that occurred in the
    courtroom or the Judge’s office earlier that day, officer safety was, you know, a
    predominate issue in our mind. So we entered his bedroom, which the door was
    open. We looked on the floor. We looked in a closet area to the right of the bed,
    any place that he could physically hide his body. There was a closet to the left.
    The closet door was partially open, but not good enough for me to see inside for a
    person. I opened the door up, looked briefly to see if he was there, never entering
    the closet itself, and standing in the corner was three weapons, three rifles.”
    ...
    “Q. Okay. So, did you ask him [Cabral] if Kelly Gould was there?
    A. Yes, I did.
    Q. Okay. And he told you, he’s in the back?
    A. He told me that he was in his bedroom. He believed him to be asleep. He
    pointed in the direction to his right, which would have been to my left.”
    ...
    “Q. Okay. So the only information he gave you was that Kelly Gould was there? He
    didn’t
    invite you to come in?
    20
    court found that “Cabral consented to the entry of the detectives
    into the trailer to search for the defendant” and that “the
    detectives       were    reasonable        in    believing      that     Mr.    Cabral      was
    authorized to consent to the search.”                      However, the court found
    A. That is not correct. He did let us come in when we asked him, do you mind if we
    come in
    and see if he’s there.
    Q. Uh-huh.
    A. He said, sure. Come in. No problem. And we entered.
    Q. All right. And he pointed to the back bedroom where Kelly Gould was?
    A. He pointed to the back bedroom that he identified as Kelly Gould’s bedroom.
    Q. Did you ask permission to go in that bedroom?
    A. No, sir.
    Q. You didn’t? All right.
    A. But when I approached the bedroom, Kelly Gould’s bedroom, the door was open.
    Q. The door of the bedroom was open?
    A. That is correct.
    Q. You were able to look into the bedroom and look around?
    A. Yes.
    Q. You went into the bedroom?
    A. Yes, I did.
    Q. Okay. Did you look under the bed?
    A. I looked for any place that I thought a human person could be hiding possibly.”
    21
    that “[b]ecause there was no indication that Mr. Cabral lived in
    the master bedroom, he had no apparent authority to consent to a
    search   of   the   master   bedroom.”   We   conclude   that   the   only
    reasonable construction of the credited testimony is not only that
    Cabral consented to the officers’ entry into the mobile home to
    look for Gould but also that this consent, at least by the clearest
    implication, extended to the master bedroom.       This is so because,
    although the officers did not specifically and separately mention
    the bedroom in asking to come in, they did state they wanted to
    talk to Gould and asked if they could come in to see if he was
    there, and Cabral responded that Gould was likely asleep in his
    bedroom, pointing to it, and stating “you are more than welcome to
    come in and check it out.”      Cabral, however, lacked any authority,
    actual or apparent, to consent to a search of the master bedroom
    (although he had at least apparent authority to otherwise consent
    to a search of the mobile home), and for that reason the search of
    the master bedroom had to be justified as a protective sweep, just
    as did the search of the basement in Buie.         The district court
    declined to justify the search of the bedroom on that basis solely
    because the sweep was not incident to an arrest.
    We recognize that protective sweeps following a consent entry
    may in certain circumstances pose Fourth Amendment concerns not
    present in cases where the initial entry is pursuant to a warrant.
    For example, concerns might arise respecting a consent to entry
    22
    requested for a stated common purpose but actually intended not for
    that purpose but rather for the purpose of gaining access in order
    to then make a protective sweep of the entire home for unrelated
    reasons and thus circumvent the warrant requirement.           Concerns of
    a similar character might also arguably arise where the consent to
    entry is given expressly or implicitly only as to a limited area
    but the protective sweep extends clearly beyond that area without
    anything having developed since entry suggestive of greater or more
    imminent danger than that initially apparent just prior to entry.
    We do not purport to now ultimately resolve hypothetical cases of
    those varieties, for the mentioned kinds of concerns are not
    meaningfully implicated here.      The credited evidence does not show
    and the district court did not find that the officers sought entry
    for any purpose other than what they stated to Cabral, namely to
    see if Gould was there and to talk to him, and Cabral, knowing that
    purpose, consented to the entry. Moreover, the consent which he
    purported to give was not either expressly or implicitly limited,
    but rather, by the clearest implication, extended to the master
    bedroom.   Finally, after the officers entered the mobile home and
    proceeded down the hall towards the master bedroom and approached,
    but before they arrived at, its entrance, they observed that the
    bedroom’s door was open; Gould was not in his bed asleep, as Cabral
    had just represented, nor was Gould otherwise visible, so the
    danger   and   imminence   of   ambush   then   dramatically   increased,
    23
    justifying the few seconds’ “sweep” looking under the bed and
    opening the two bedroom closet doors.
    We   decline      to   adopt   any      across-the-board     rule    that   a
    protective sweep can never be valid where the initial entry to the
    home is pursuant to consent, even where the consent does not of
    itself legally authorize the entry into the area swept.                  Any such
    rule either would require officers to forego any and all consent
    entries or would prevent them, once having so entered, from taking
    reasonable, minimally intrusive, means for self-protection when
    reasonable suspicion of the danger of ambush arises.               Applying the
    general reasonableness standard of Buie and Knights we hold that
    the Fourth Amendment imposes no such Hobson’s choice. We note that
    a “knock and talk” police investigatory practice has clearly been
    recognized as legitimate.        See, e.g., United States v. Jones, 
    239 F.3d 716
    , 720 (5th Cir. 2001).       Certainly, the officers were in the
    mobile    home   for    a   legitimate       governmental   purpose,      namely
    questioning Gould about the information they had received earlier
    that day, in two telephone calls from Gould’s employee (or co-
    worker) Forehand, an individual otherwise unknown to them, that
    Gould, known to be a person prone to violence, was planning to kill
    two local judges.      As the district court recognized, “the officers
    had a legitimate governmental interest in questioning the defendant
    about the information they had received.”
    In    its   opinion      denying        the   Government’s    motion    for
    24
    reconsideration, the district court faulted the officers on the
    basis that “[t]he officers could have approached the defendant as
    he left his mobile home one day, or they could have followed him in
    any other public place, without necessitating the entry into his
    residence,”     and     that   accordingly      the   officers     “created   the
    dangerous situation by approaching and entering the mobile home.”
    Although not explicitly addressed by the district court this raises
    the question of the potential applicability of our cases holding
    that although exigent circumstances may justify a warrantless
    probable cause entry into the home, they will not do so if “the
    exigent circumstances were manufactured by the agents.” See, e.g.,
    United States v. Rico, 
    51 F.3d 495
    , 502 (5th Cir. 1995).                  We have
    indicated that this involves two levels of inquiry, first whether
    the officers deliberately created the exigent circumstances with
    the bad faith intent to avoid the warrant requirement, and second,
    even if they did not do so in bad faith, whether their actions
    creating the exigency were sufficiently unreasonable or improper as
    to   preclude      dispensation        with     the    warrant      requirement.
    Id.(recognizing that in United States v. Socey, 
    846 F.2d 1439
    , 1449
    (D.C. Cir.), cert. denied, 
    109 S. Ct. 152
    (1988), the D.C. Circuit
    rejected going beyond the first level of inquiry).               Here, there is
    no finding and no evidence to suggest that the officers acted with
    the intent    to      create   an   emergency    to   circumvent    the   warrant
    25
    requirement.12        We need not and do not here determine whether or to
    what extent the second (or “reasonableness”) level of inquiry in
    our    manufactured        exigent        circumstances       cases,      which     involve
    situations where the entry into the home otherwise contravenes the
    Fourth Amendment, should be applicable to situations such as the
    present one where the entry is pursuant to a valid, non-pretextual
    consent as above described. This is because even under that second
    level of inquiry the officers’ actions here may not be deemed to
    have        been   improper.        Our    exigent      circumstances         cases      have
    consistently held in this regard that “we will not second-guess the
    judgment of law enforcement officers where reasonable minds may
    differ.” United States v. Howard, 
    106 F.3d 70
    , 76 (5th Cir. 1997);
    United States v. Rodea, 
    102 F.3d 1401
    , 1410 (5th Cir. 1996); Rico
    at 505.       Here there is absolutely no testimony that the tactics or
    procedures followed by the officers were unreasonable or contrary
    to standard or good law enforcement practices (or to the policies
    or practices of their jurisdictions).                    There is no evidence that
    the officers ever observed Gould away from his home so that they
    could have followed him and approached him in a public place, or
    that they had any idea of where he might be other than the mobile
    home. The information that the officers received on the evening of
    October 17 was that Gould, known as a dangerous and violent person,
    12
    Had the officers acted with such improper motive or intent, we assume such would have
    invalidated the sweep.
    26
    was planning          to   kill     two    particular        local      judges.        Clearly,
    reasonable officers could conclude that the appropriate course of
    conduct was to go directly to the mobile home, which is where
    Forehand told them Gould was, rather than wait until “one day”,
    which might well be a day after someone was killed.13
    We conclude that the officers were legally within the mobile
    home for a legitimate governmental purpose when the protective
    13
    In its original opinion the district court found that “[t]he detectives would not have
    arrested the defendant if they had not found the firearms in the closet, because they would have
    had no probable cause that he had committed a crime” (emphasis added). This was doubtless
    based on, among other things, the testimony of Officer Brown who stated that prior to seeing the
    guns in the closet “I had no knowledge there was weapons in the house.” However, in its opinion
    denying the Government’s motion for reconsideration, the court states, without referring to its
    initial opinion, that
    “. . . the officers could have obtained a valid search warrant based on the
    information provided to them by Mr. Forehand. Mr. Forehand informed the
    officers that, while at the mobile home one day, the defendant had retrieved a
    twenty-two caliber rifle, equipped with a scope, from his bedroom and showed it
    to him. Mr. Forehand also reported that Gould described additional weapons that
    he owned. (See Affidavit of Officer Leonardo Moore, East Baton Rouge
    Sheriff’s Office, p. 3). With this information and the officers’ knowledge that the
    defendant was a convicted felon, the officers should have obtained a search
    warrant for the mobile home . . . .”
    The only cited support is the referenced affidavit of Moore, which is dated July 25, 2001, and is
    attached to the original criminal complaint in this case. As the Government has consistently
    pointed out, while the Moore affidavit does state that Forehand so advised the officers, it is clear
    from the affidavit itself, as well as from the record as a whole, that he did so only on being
    questioned by the officers at the trailer after Gould’s arrest. On this appeal, Gould has
    consistently recognized that that is the case, and has indeed emphasized that the officers did not
    have probable cause to arrest Gould until they saw the guns in the closet. Thus, in oral argument
    to the panel Gould’s counsel asserted that before looking into the closet “they [the officers] had
    no information as the Government pointed out that he had a gun” and “[t]hey [the officers] didn’t
    know about the guns.” Similarly, at oral argument to the en banc court Gould’s counsel stated
    “keep in mind, these folks [the officers ] had no probable cause. They didn’t even know there
    were guns in the house.” Accordingly, we disregard the district court’s search warrant finding as
    it is clearly based on a misapprehension of the evidence. We need not and do not determine what
    the legal effect of this finding would have been.
    27
    sweep was undertaken.
    3.    The officers had reasonable suspicion of danger
    When the open bedroom door revealed that Gould was not in bed,
    as   had   just   previously    been      represented   to    the   officers,    or
    otherwise visible to them, a reasonable basis for suspicion arose
    that Gould, whom they had been informed was prone to violence and
    was plotting to kill two judges, might be hiding in the room and
    posing     an   imminent   danger    to    the   officers.      Gould    has    not
    challenged this, and the district court found that the officers
    “needed to locate the defendant for their own safety, so they could
    make sure he did not launch a surprise attack from a hidden
    location” and that the bedroom sweep lasted “no longer than . . .
    necessary to dispel the reasonable suspicion of danger.”                       This
    element of a legitimate protective sweep is clearly satisfied.
    Judge     Smith’s    dissent   asserts     that   the   district   court’s
    conclusion that the officers were justified in viewing Gould as a
    threat to their safety is based on the court’s concededly erroneous
    statement in its opinion on reconsideration that Forehand had told
    the officers in his call earlier that day that Gould had firearms
    at the trailer, so the officers, knowing Gould was a convicted
    felon, could, and hence should, have first procured an arrest
    warrant. Judge Smith then asserts that because the officers lacked
    such knowledge (in its initial opinion, the district court found
    that the officers lacked probable cause to arrest Gould until they
    28
    saw the firearms in the bedroom closet, see note 
    13, supra
    ) they
    had no legitimate safety concern justifying the protective sweep
    when they saw Gould was not in his bed.                     Judge Smith’s reasoning in
    this respect basically confuses probable cause with reasonable
    suspicion.         In Buie the Supreme Court expressly rejected the
    Maryland Court of Appeals’ holding that a protective sweep required
    “probable cause to believe” there was “‘a serious and demonstrable
    potentiality for danger,’” 
    id. at 1096
    , and went on to hold that
    the reasonable suspicion standard of Terry and Long governed. Here
    there is no evidence that the officers had been specifically told
    that Gould had weapons at the trailer.                         On the other hand, the
    credited – indeed the undisputed – testimony is that the officers
    had been told by Forehand that Gould “had planned to go on a
    killing spree killing judges, police officers, and minority groups
    . . . and that he was going to go to some type of place after he
    did these incidents and hide from the police, and those kinds of
    things, and snipe anybody out that tried to come in and take him
    into custody.”14          That a person is planning to go on such a wide
    killing spree – and thereafter “snipe” at those who might try to
    take him into custody – certainly suggests that that person has, at
    the least, ready access to lethal weapons.15                         As a matter of law,
    14
    The officers also knew Gould had several arrests and at least one felony conviction for a
    crime of violence and was known for violent behavior.
    15
    Nothing in the record intimates that the officers had any information even suggesting that
    Gould did not have or have ready access to a firearm or firearms or other lethal weapons.
    29
    the credited testimony establishes that the officers had the
    requisite reasonable suspicion of enhanced danger when they, at
    night on Gould’s turf, saw that Gould was not in his bed asleep, as
    Cabral had just told them he was.16
    4.     The sweep was properly limited in scope and duration
    The district court found that “the officers’ search of the
    master bedroom did not exceed the acceptable scope of a protective
    sweep, which extends only to a cursory inspection of those spaces
    where a person may be found, and lasts no longer than is necessary
    to dispel the reasonable suspicion of danger.”                                   The credited
    evidence       clearly      supports       these      findings       and    satisfies        those
    elements of a legitimate protective sweep.
    If the fact that Gould was not in his bed or otherwise visible
    in the bedroom can be taken as signifying a refusal on his part to
    talk to the officers and in that sense a termination of their
    16
    Where the relevant historic facts are undisputed (or are established by adequately
    supported district court findings) whether or not there is reasonable suspicion is a question of law.
    See, e.g., Blackwall v. Burton, 
    34 F.3d 298
    , 305 (5th Cir. 1994); United States v. McSween, 
    53 F.3d 684
    , 687 n.5 (5th Cir. 1995); 5 LaFave, Search and Seizure (3d Ed.) § 11.7(c) at 406-07 (“.
    . . the clearly erroneous standard is applied to severable underlying facts while the de novo
    standard is applied to the ultimate question whether those facts add up to reasonable suspicion”).
    Moreover, it is clear that the district court never found there was not the requisite reasonable
    suspicion. On the contrary, it described its holding as follows: “[t]his court noted the defendant’s
    violent past, and did not dispute that the officers were justified in viewing the defendant as a
    violent and potentially dangerous individual . . . the officers’ search of the bedroom did not
    exceed the acceptable scope of a protective sweep, which . . . lasts no longer than is necessary to
    dispel the reasonable suspicion of danger.” (emphasis added).
    30
    consent to be in the mobile home for that purpose,17 nevertheless
    that does not mean that the officers could not conduct the sweep.
    They did not have to go back out of the mobile home without taking
    some brief, minimally intrusive steps to protect themselves against
    ambush as they were on the way out.                        In Buie effectuating arrest
    was the only justification for being in the home, but the sweep of
    the basement was not commenced until Buie was already arrested,
    searched and handcuffed on the first floor.                              Buie at 1095.           The
    court made clear that the sweep authority extended until the
    officers       not    only     complete        the    arrest       but    also     “depart       the
    premises,” 
    id. at 1099,
    and that the officers were permitted “to
    take reasonable steps to ensure their safety after, and while
    making, the arrest.”              
    Id. at 1098
    (emphasis added).                   Indeed, here,
    just as the brief sweep of the bedroom was completed the officers
    heard someone yell that Gould had departed the mobile home through
    a back door, and they “immediately” likewise departed the bedroom
    and went outside looking for Gould.18
    17
    And it is not clearly evident that that is so. There was certainly reasonable suspicion that
    Gould was hiding under the bed or in the closets, but such suspicion does not exclude the
    reasonable possibility that he had innocently stepped outside without intending to avoid the
    officers. Reasonable suspicion is just that, it is not probable cause or a more likely than not
    standard, and it does not exclude other reasonable possibilities.
    18
    Officer Brown testified:
    “After I determined immediately that he wasn’t in the room, I started to
    exit the bedroom, and at that time somebody in – and I don’t remember who it was
    at this time – yelled, I think he just ran out of the back door, which is nearby, near
    the bedroom area. So I looked and, sure enough, the back door was wide open.
    So immediately I jumped out the back door looking to see if I could get a visual on
    31
    The challenged protective sweep was properly limited in scope
    and duration.
    Conclusion
    We hold that a protective sweep as authorized by Buie need not
    always be incident to an arrest.                    The district court erred in
    holding    otherwise.             Applying    the    standards   and   limitations
    articulated in Buie and the general reasonableness criteria of the
    Fourth Amendment, we conclude that the protective sweep here was
    valid.    The district court’s suppression order is accordingly
    REVERSED.
    him to try to locate him.”
    32
    E. GRADY JOLLY, Circuit Judge, concurring in part and dissenting in
    part:
    I agree that a protective sweep need not be conducted incident
    to   arrest   to   be    valid      under    the    Fourth     Amendment.     The
    constitutionality       of   such   searches       must   be   assessed   under   a
    standard of general reasonableness, in consideration of the factors
    discussed by the majority.
    I also agree that the “knock and talk” is usually a legitimate
    law enforcement tool, and that the officers in this case were
    legally in Gould’s home based on Cabral’s consent.
    Under the totality of the circumstances, however, it was
    unreasonable for the police to enter Gould’s bedroom and search his
    closets, essentially for the reasons discussed by Judge Smith.                    It
    seems to me that if the door to the bedroom had been closed -- or
    even if Gould had been in the room -- the search could have been
    justified by the majority on basically the same grounds (risk of
    ambush, etc.) it has used to justify the search of an open room in
    the absence of the subject.
    I therefore would affirm the suppression of the evidence.
    33
    JERRY E. SMITH, Circuit Judge, dissenting:
    I respectfully dissent from the majority’s result and from
    much of its analysis, largely on the basis ably expressed by Judge
    DeMoss in dissent.    I agree, however, with the majority’s con-
    clusion that United States v. Wilson, 
    36 F.3d 1298
    (5th Cir. 1994),
    is in error and must be overruled.
    Maryland v. Buie, 
    494 U.S. 325
    (1990), is no exception to the
    longstanding view that “[t]he touchstone of the Fourth Amendment is
    reasonableness, and the reasonableness of a search is determined
    ‘by assessing, on the one hand, the degree to which it intrudes
    upon an individual’s privacy and, on the other, the degree to which
    it is needed for the promotion of legitimate governmental inter-
    ests.’”   United States v. Knights, 
    534 U.S. 112
    , 118-19 (2001)
    (quoting Wyoming v. Houghton, 
    526 U.S. 295
    , 300 (1999)).   Buie es-
    tablished that a search very much like the present one was reason-
    able; that conclusion alone is an insufficient basis for deciding
    (as the panel in this case was precedent-bound to do) that the
    present search is presumptively invalid, no matter how reasonable.
    The majority correctly identifies a number of the factors that
    are important to assessing the reasonableness of the officers’ deci-
    sion to conduct a protective sweep.   SomeSSsuch as the requirement
    that the search be performed for the safety of the officers; the
    necessity of having articulable facts from which an officer rea-
    34
    sonably could apprehend danger; the importance of limiting the
    search to a cursory visual inspection of those places that could
    hide a person; and the cap on the duration of the searchSScome dir-
    ectly from 
    Buie, 494 U.S. at 333-36
    . OthersSSsuch as the legitimacy
    of the officers’ presence and purpose on the scene; the validity and
    scope of their consent to enter the home; the requirement that facts
    justify the sweep arise after officers obtain consent to enter for
    a conversation; and the potentially pernicious effect of allowing
    officers to themselves create the justification for a sweepSSare
    reasonable and insightful attempts to compensate for the critical
    distinction between this case and Buie: the absence of an arrest or
    arrest warrant.19
    A faithful application of these principles does not, however,
    lead to the conclusion that the protective sweep was reasonable.
    At best, it seems we are ill-equipped to reach that conclusion,
    relying as we must on nothing more than a paper record compiled un-
    der the mistaken impression that the reasonableness of the search
    was wholly irrelevant to its constitutionality.                        This matter should
    be remanded so that the rule that the majority properly crafts can
    be applied in a hearing convened for the purpose of elucidating
    those facts that bear directly on the reasonableness of the sweep.
    19
    See slip op. at 24-25 (legitimacy of purpose); 
    id. at 23-24
    (validity and scope of
    consent); 
    id. at 23
    (concern that sweeps will be attempted after obtaining consent but before new
    facts indicate a heightened danger); 
    id. at 25-27
    (potential that sweep would be improper if of-
    ficers unnecessarily created dangerous situation).
    35
    Solely on the basis of the scant record now on appeal, the
    sweep was unreasonable, so the order granting the motion to suppress
    should be affirmed.   Although I agree with most of the persuasive
    critiques found in Judge DeMoss’s forceful dissent, and although I
    share his concern that there is no such thing as valid consent where
    the consenting party has no idea that the officers will then be
    entitled to conduct a search, I write separately to focus on one
    particularly serious flaw in the majority’s analysis.
    I start with a point also made by Judge DeMoss:    The majority
    puffs this court’s assessment of the “knock and talk” strategy, tak-
    ing what was once “not inherently unreasonable,” United States v.
    Jones, 
    239 F.3d 716
    , 720 (5th Cir. 2001), and making it something
    that has “clearly been recognized as legitimate.”    Slip op. at 25
    (citing only Jones as authority).     That is quite a transformation
    in only three years’ time.
    I doubt even the majority would contend that this now “clearly
    . . . legitimate” tactic, which consists primarily of approaching
    a suspect at his home to seek his voluntary cooperation in an inves-
    tigation, presents the compelling sort of interest found in the
    officers’ duty to execute an arrest warrant.    Officers use “knock
    and talk” encounters as just one of the many available investigative
    tools, and they do so hoping that they will be able to determine
    whether there even exists the probable cause that is necessary to
    obtain an arrest or search warrant.
    36
    In seeking the proper balance between privacy and the promotion
    of legitimate governmental interests, 
    Houghton, 526 U.S. at 300
    , it
    may well be that our decisions “mean that the police use a tactic
    like ‘knock and talk’ somewhat less frequently, but that may be the
    price of compliance with the Fourth Amendment.”     United States v.
    Johnson, 
    170 F.3d 708
    , 718 (7th Cir. 1999).   There are other lawful
    ways for police to pursue their investigation without testing the
    limits of the Fourth Amendment, includingSSas the district court
    foundSSby returning another day when Gould was present and amenable
    to speaking with them.
    I make this point only to highlight a significant principle
    that the majority opinion recognizes but fails to invoke:    However
    high the government’s interest in protecting its officers, there
    must be some other legitimate purpose for which officers secure
    themselves.   See slip op. at 25.    A search that does nothing more
    than allow the officers safely to remain in a place where they have
    no reason or right to be will, of necessity, be unreasonable in all
    but the rarest of circumstances. The majority’s assessment that the
    police have a legitimate interest in pursuing “knock and talk”
    encounters suffices to create a justification for the officers’
    presence in Gould’s trailer, and it plays a large role in the even-
    tual conclusion that this search was reasonable in light of all the
    circumstances.
    Yet, even assuming the majority correctly assesses the legiti-
    37
    macy of the “knock and talk” technique, a reasonable officer would
    have known, before entering Gould’s bedroom, that the original pur-
    pose of the encounter would not be realized that day.                               At best, from
    the officers’ perspective, Gould was not home and was unable to
    discuss the allegations made against him.                          At worst, he was hiding
    and did not wish to speak with them.20
    As Judge DeMoss rightfully recognizes, slip op. at 7-8 (DeMoss,
    J., dissenting), the majority glosses over this error by assessing
    the legitimacy of the officers’ purpose and the reasonableness of
    their fear at two different points in time.                          Slip op. at 25, 28-29.
    It is true that at one point, the officers were in the mobile home
    with a valid purpose: to discuss with Gould the serious allegations
    against him.        It is equally true that the officers were, at another
    point, in the bedroom with a legitimate fear: that Gould was hiding
    in a closet and posed a threat to their safety.                                But there is no
    consanguinity between these points.                       The legitimate purpose of the
    encounter had all but evaporated by the time the majority concludes
    the officers possessed a valid fear.
    The officers had no reason to enter Gould’s bedroom if Gould
    was not therein, voluntarily cooperating.                          An empty room serves no
    investigative purpose where the entire focus of the investigation
    is on having a conversation. This fact is illustrated by the action
    20
    The fact that Gould was found hiding in the woods, wearing only his boxer shorts,
    adequately attests to the fact that the latter of these two possibilities was the more realistic that
    day.
    38
    taken by the officers as soon as the room was secure:                          They left it.
    Inasmuch as the sweep served no purpose other than to secure a room
    in which the officers had nothing to do, it was unreasonable and in
    violation of the Fourth Amendment.
    The majority has a rejoinder to that argument:                          Regardless of
    whether the officers should have known that their quest for a
    “knock and talk” encounter had been rendered fruitless, they none-
    theless possessed a compelling interest in securing the mobile home
    so they could safely depart from it.                    Slip op. at 29-30.             I agree
    that this is one of two articulated justifications for the sweep in
    Buie,21 and, if supported by the record, conceivably could serve to
    make the sweep reasonable as well.                  The record, however, flatly re-
    futes that view. Moreover, the majority’s assertion to the contrary
    is based in large part on a factual finding that it previously
    overturns as being clearly erroneous.
    There is no dispute that Cabral lacked even the apparent au-
    thority to consent to the entry into Gould’s bedroom.                                Slip op.
    at 22-23.      As a result, the sweep must be justified on the basis of
    the threats facing the officers at the instant before they entered
    that room.       
    Id. That is
    to say, once the officers observed that
    Gould was not in his bedroom (which they could not enter without his
    consent, nor had an investigative reason to enter without his
    21
    See 
    Buie, 494 U.S. at 335-36
    (“The sweep lasts no longer than is necessary to dispel the
    reasonable suspicion of danger and in any event no longer than it takes to complete the arrest and
    depart the premises.”).
    39
    presence), their decision to enter and conduct a sweep is reasonable
    only if they would have faced a greater danger by not entering. The
    majority appears to conclude that it was not only safer, but
    obviously so, for the police to enter the room that potentially
    housed a danger, than it was to retreat the few feet toward the
    doorway they had used only an instant before.
    We are not faced here with Daedalus’s Labyrith or the Minotaur
    lurking somewhere inside. The officersSSone of whom already had his
    gun drawnSSwere in a fourteen-by-sixty-foot trailer home, and there
    is every indication that they had as plain a view of their path to
    retreat as they did of the empty bedroom.22                      The government has not
    even argued, in its briefs, that the officers were unable to depart
    safely.
    Instead, the government’s posture throughout this case is that
    there was no need to flee, because the officers still were conduct-
    ing a valid “knock and talk” investigation.                         As I have shown, and
    as the majority tacitly concedes, slip op. at 29, that claim is in-
    consistent with the scope of the “knock and talk” technique, which
    has, as its central premise, the presence of a voluntarily coop-
    erating witness. To compensate for the absence of any investigative
    22
    Here again, the sparse record inhibits the court’s ability truly to assess whether the
    sweep was a reasonable alternative to a safe retreat. At en banc oral argument, significant time
    was devoted to the question whether this was a single-wide or double-wide trailer home, and
    what effect that might have on the officers ability to leave the scene safely. It is apparent that
    such questions became relevant only after the court determined that Wilson was not good law,
    and there should be no great surprise in finding that a district court’s memorandum addressing an
    entirely different question provides poor fodder on which to graze.
    40
    purpose to the sweep, the majority instead has adopted the notion
    that there was a greater danger in retreating than there was in
    sweeping, a claim not supported by the district court’s findings of
    fact, to which we ordinarily should defer.
    As the majority correctly observes, the officers knew Gould had
    a violent past and was alleged to have been making threats against
    government officials.                But all those facts were known to the
    officers before they decided even to enter the house. If that alone
    placed them in an unjustified state of danger, that was so as much
    at the time they elected to enter the mobile home as when they chose
    to sweep.        If the majority’s new rule is taken to countenance a
    sweep whenever police seek voluntary consent to enter a building
    that they already perceive to be intolerably dangerous, Judge DeMoss
    is surely correct to assign this investigative technique the new
    moniker: “knock, enter, maybe talk, and search.”                               Slip op. at 6
    (DeMoss, J., dissenting).23
    Apparently, however, this is not the point the majority is
    23
    There is no basis for the majority’s conclusion, slip op. at 12, that this situation was
    inherently dangerous, as the Supreme Court described the in-home arrest in Buie. In 
    Buie, 494 U.S. at 333
    , the Court recognized the danger an officer faces when forced to effect a con-
    frontational encounter on his “adversary’s ‘turf.’” Here, although the majority correctly
    recognizes that a “knock and talk” encounter does not include the potentially explosive
    confrontation of an arrest, slip op. at 12, it nevertheless concludes that the encounter is dangerous
    by virtue of being on the adversary’s turf. 
    Id. This completely
    mistakes the fact that in a “knock and talk” encounter, there is no
    adversary. The whole point is to approach a citizen and learn something through voluntary
    cooperation.
    41
    attempting to make, for it unambiguously requires officers to justi-
    fy the sweep on the basis of evidence that was discovered after they
    obtained consent to enter.     Slip op. at 23.   Nevertheless, though
    the majority laudably imposes this limitation on its new rule, the
    majority has not faithfully applied that rule to the present record.
    The only fact to which the majority points for its explanation
    of how the officers went from the point of being safe enough to
    enter the room to the point of being threatened enough to justify
    a sweep, is the finding that Gould was not in the bedroom where
    Cabral said he would be.     The most natural inference to draw from
    that fact is that Gould was not home, or that if he was home, he
    wanted nothing to do with the officers.
    Even assuming the reasonableness of the belief that Gould in-
    stead was preparing to ambush the officers as they left the
    sceneSSsomething he chose not to do when they entered the home, and
    was far more likely to do when the officers drew nearer in their
    search for himSSthat would pose a threat to the officers only when
    they were outside the bedroom, if they also believed Gould was in
    possession of a firearm. This is the unambiguous basis on which the
    district court determined that “the officers were justified in
    viewing the defendants as a danger to their safety,” a statement
    that immediately follows the paragraph in which the court states
    that the officers knew, before they arrived at the scene, that Gould
    had a firearm.   But the majority cannot possibly reach the same
    42
    conclusion, because its opinion also states that the district court
    clearly erred when it found that the officers knew about the weapon!
    Slip op. at 27 n.13.
    As a result, there is no basis in the record for the majority’s
    contention that it was more dangerous for the officers to leave the
    room instead of entering a confined area that they suspected housed
    a threat, and start poking around.            That is a theory that was
    manufactured out of whole cloth at the en banc oral argument.
    If the majority genuinely suspects that this might have been
    the case, the best it can do is remand so the record can be de-
    veloped with an eye to the correct governing legal standard. As the
    court correctly determines today, that standard is not just whether
    the sweep was made incident to arrest (as Wilson erroneously led the
    district court to believe), but rather whether the sweep was a
    reasonably necessary, minimally intrusive means of securing an area
    in which the officers needed to perform a task of compelling
    importance.
    The majority recites, then loses sight of, the well-established
    maxim that “physical entry of the home is the chief evilagainst
    which the wording of the Fourth Amendment is directed.”          Payton v.
    New York, 
    445 U.S. 573
    , 585 (1980).          Because the majority thereby
    gives   insufficient   respect   to    the   constraints   of   the   Fourth
    Amendment, I respectfully dissent.
    43
    DeMoss, Circuit Judge, dissenting, joined by Stewart, Circuit Judge.
    Because    the   majority    opinion     essentially   creates    another
    exception to the constitutional requirement that nonconsensual
    warrantless    searches   are     unreasonable    and   this   newly    created
    exception is overly broad and unnecessary, I respectfully dissent.
    This case presents the difficult issues of: (1) whether the
    protective sweep exception defined by the Supreme Court in Maryland
    v. Buie, 
    494 U.S. 325
    (1990), is limited to situations involving the
    execution of an arrest warrant as we held in United States v.
    Wilson, 
    36 F.3d 1298
    (5th Cir. 1994); and if not (2) whether the
    search in this case was reasonable. In addressing these two issues,
    I think the majority makes three significant errors.              First, the
    majority’s     starting   point    in   its    Fourth   Amendment      analysis
    concerning a warrantless search of a home is faulty and therefore
    the majority does not fully account for the lack of consent in this
    case.    Second, the majority’s reliance on the so-called “clearly”
    legitimate “knock and talk” police investigatory tactic is misplaced
    and therefore the majority’s holding leads to an end-run around the
    Fourth    Amendment’s     protections.         Third,   the    majority     has
    misconstrued the holding of the Supreme Court in Buie.                  I will
    address these three errors in order.
    I.
    The Fourth Amendment provides:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
    houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable
    searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no
    Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported
    by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the
    place to be searched, and the persons or things to be
    seized.
    U.S. Const. amend. IV.      Further, “[i]t is a ‘basic principle of
    Fourth Amendment law’ that searches and seizures inside a home
    without a warrant are presumptively unreasonable.”         Payton v. New
    York, 
    445 U.S. 573
    , 586 (1980) (citing Coolidge v. New Hampshire,
    
    403 U.S. 443
    , 477-78 (1971)).     Additionally, the “physical entry of
    the home is the chief evil against which the wording of the Fourth
    Amendment is directed.”      United States v. United States District
    Court, 
    407 U.S. 297
    , 313 (1972). Accordingly, our law dictates that
    unless some exception applies, the search at issue in this case, a
    warrantless nonconsensual search of Kelly Gould’s bedroom in his
    home, must be found unconstitutional.
    The majority is correct that the Supreme Court has outlined a
    “general reasonableness approach” that can be applied in Fourth
    Amendment cases and which requires balancing the intrusion on the
    protected interests against the promotion of legitimate governmental
    interests.     See, e.g., United States v. Knights, 
    534 U.S. 112
    , 118-
    19 (2001). This reasonableness inquiry, however, is to be conducted
    within   the   bedrock   legal   boundaries   outlined   above,   i.e.,   a
    nonconsensual warrantless search of a home is presumed unreasonable.
    
    Id. at 121
    (describing what the Fourth Amendment normally requires).
    The inquiry conducted in Knights, that the majority purports to rely
    on in this case, is in fact within these legal boundaries because
    45
    unlike in this case, the defendant in Knights was on probation and
    as a term of his probation had consented in writing to unannounced
    searches of his home.      
    Id. at 114.
       The Supreme Court found the
    “probation search condition” a “salient circumstance” and thus both
    the intrusion on the defendant’s expectation of privacy was less and
    the governmental interest was greater, i.e., heightened concerns due
    to the fact that probationers are more likely to engage in criminal
    conduct, making the search at issue in that case constitutional.
    
    Id. at 118.
        Therefore, unlike in this case, where there is no
    probation and no general consent agreement, the Supreme Court’s
    reasonableness inquiry in Knights is well within established Fourth
    Amendment jurisprudence.
    Unfortunately, the majority opinion skips some significant
    concerns in this case and does not address the established legal
    principles I have already outlined.      The majority’s inquiry starts
    by giving too little credence to Gould’s privacy interest and the
    intrusion of the officers coming into his house late in the evening
    to look for him when they had no factual basis whatsoever for
    assuming he would be agreeable to talking to them or that he was
    even present.   When a search is performed pursuant to consent, the
    government has the burden of proving that the individual who gave
    consent had the authority to do so and that the search was conducted
    within the scope of that consent. United States v. Ibarra, 
    965 F.2d 1354
    , 1356 n.2 (5th Cir. 1992) (en banc).          “The standard for
    46
    measuring      the     scope     of    a    suspect’s        consent      under     the     Fourth
    Amendment is that of ‘objective’ reasonableness--what would the
    typical reasonable person have understood by the exchange between
    the officer and the suspect?”                 Florida v. Jimeno, 
    500 U.S. 248
    , 251
    (1991).      The majority opinion emphasizes that the officers were
    legitimately in the home.                  The record, however, is clear that the
    officers did not have consent to enter Gould’s bedroom.                                        Even
    resolving       all     factual        disputes        and     making       all     credibility
    determinations in favor of the government, the testimony at the
    suppression hearing indicated that Cabral thought Gould was either
    in the backyard working out or in his (Gould’s) bedroom.                                          As
    officers went back to the bedroom they may have thought Gould was
    possibly there but they testified that he did not appear to be
    present and they understood that they never had consent to enter the
    bedroom.      The legitimacy of the officers’ presence, if legitimate
    at all, ended at the threshold to the bedroom door.24                             The majority
    seems to wash over this concern by not fully addressing the issue
    and instead references the very distinguishable Knights holding.
    24
    The majority indicates that the protective sweep allowed the officers to go into an area
    that they did not have consent to enter, i.e., the bedroom. Consent is an issue concerning the
    officers’ legitimacy to be on the premises and where this legitimacy begins and ends is a
    significant issue which the majority discusses in a contradictory fashion. For instance, if the
    officers had consent, they certainly exceeded the scope of the consent when they entered the
    bedroom. On the other hand, if the protective sweep exception allows the officers to enter the
    bedroom then the original consent validating their presence in the residence certainly did not
    understand this to be within the scope of the consent and therefore the consent was invalid and
    the officers’ presence was not legitimate in the first place. Under the majority’s view there is no
    way to resolve the issues regarding consent.
    47
    This case, however, is different than Knights because here the
    consent did not extend to the entire residence.                               If the majority
    believes the search was based on consent then that should be the
    holding, rather than creating an additional unnecessary and overly
    broad exception to the warrant requirement.25                           In summary, because
    the majority starts from the wrong place, it ends in the wrong place
    and hence its Fourth Amendment analysis is flawed.
    II.
    In satisfying its first requirement of this newly created
    exception to the protections afforded by the Fourth Amendment, i.e.,
    that the officers were legally present in the mobile home, the
    majority relies on the “knock and talk” police investigatory tactic
    mentioned in United States v. Jones, 
    239 F.3d 716
    , 720 (5th Cir.
    2001).      The majority refers to this practice as being “clearly . .
    . recognized as legitimate.”                 The “knock and talk” tactic is hardly
    well-established law.26               The Fifth Circuit case establishing the
    25
    Of course, such a holding would be contrary to the district court’s finding that Cabral did
    not have authority to consent to the search of Gould’s bedroom and after all, it is Gould’s privacy
    interest that is at stake in this case.
    26
    There are two aspects of Jones which make it a very weak decision upon which to posit
    a new exception to the Fourth Amendment. First the gun in Jones was lying in plain view on a
    kitchen table visible to the police officer standing outside the screen door of the entrance to the
    apartment. 
    Id. at 719.
    The district court in Jones found that this hand gun in plain view was an
    “exigent circumstance,” justifying the officer’s entry into the apartment without a warrant. 
    Id. at 720.
    No such circumstance exists here in Gould. Secondly, it is noteworthy that Jones has never
    been discussed or cited by the Supreme Court. Several other circuits have cited Jones but only
    the Sixth Circuit has really examined the Jones case and indicated some agreement with the Fifth
    Circuit’s “knock and talk” concept. United States v. Carter, 
    315 F.3d 651
    , *4 n.6 (6th Cir. 2003)
    (continued...)
    48
    concept of “knock and talk” merely states that “[t]his investigative
    tactic is not inherently unreasonable.”                     
    Jones, 239 F.3d at 720
    .
    Use of the “knock and talk” tactic may be reasonable in some
    cases, e.g., police may follow-up on a lead and approach a citizen,
    seeking the citizen’s cooperation.                       In this case, however, the
    officers conducted an intrusive search of a bedroom with neither
    consent, nor search warrant, nor arrest warrant, nor any exigent
    circumstances.        The majority has created an exception that permits
    an officer to ask for permission to enter a home from a third party
    who may have authority to consent to only part of the home but not
    all of the home and then immediately contend that he, the officer,
    is so apprehensive about his own safety that he must conduct a
    protective sweep of areas where he has no consent to be, when the
    officer had no obligation or duty to enter the home in the first
    place.     This new exception is really a “knock, enter, maybe talk,
    and search” police investigatory tactic, all conducted without a
    warrant, and resulting in an end-run around the protections afforded
    by the Fourth Amendment.
    In    addition,       the    majority        has   not   stated      why    their       new
    exception is necessary or why we should not find that the officers
    created a situation that resulted in a Fourth Amendment violation
    when they in fact had many other permissible ways to pursue their
    26
    (...continued)
    (vacated for rehearing en banc). This Sixth Circuit opinion, however, has now been vacated
    because the case was heard en banc, but there is presently no subsequent opinion available.
    49
    investigation,    i.e.,    seeking    a    search   warrant   based   on   the
    informant’s tip.     The majority does address the issue of exigent
    circumstances     that    can    sometimes   make   a   warrantless   search
    permissible.    This search, however, as the majority agrees, is not
    based on any exigency.          In fact, as the district court noted the
    officers “could have approached the defendant as he left his mobile
    home one day, or they could have followed him and approached him in
    any other public place without necessitating the entry into his
    residence.”     Just as there was no consent, there was no exigent
    circumstance to support this search.
    Recognizing that the officers cannot create the exigency, we
    evaluate the reasonableness of the officers’ conduct not at the
    point of the search but prior to the point when the encounter
    escalates making a search necessary or a foregone conclusion.
    United States v. Munoz-Guerra, 
    788 F.2d 295
    , 298 (5th Cir. 1986).
    Therefore, in this case, the officers’ conduct is not evaluated at
    the point when they are searching for Gould because according to the
    government the officers are concerned that Gould might ambush them.
    Instead the reasonableness of the conduct is evaluated at the point
    in time when the officers call for Gould and he does not answer
    because according to the officers’ testimony he does not appear to
    be in his room.    United States v. Gould, 
    326 F.3d 651
    , 652 (5th Cir.
    2003). At that point in time, it is more reasonable to assume Gould
    is either not present or if present does not wish to talk to the
    50
    officers, than that Gould is about to unleash some surprise attack
    on the officers.    Likewise, it is unreasonable for the officers,
    under no duty to execute an arrest warrant and not having consent,
    to go into Gould’s bedroom to seek him out.      The officers had no
    duty to persist, and in fact the officers had no authority to
    persist, in their search for Gould.
    Of course, the government does not argue that the officers were
    searching for Gould wishing to talk to him because such a search is
    not within the protective sweep exception.      Rather the government
    argues the officers were afraid Gould would attack them.        This
    argument is contrary to the undisputed facts in the record that
    indicate Gould was at best avoiding the officers and at worst
    unaware of the officers because he was in the backyard.           And
    although the officers knew of Gould’s violent past, there is nothing
    in the record to establish that Gould would be waiting for the
    officers in order to ambush them.      Because the officers could not
    obtain the cooperation of Gould or because Gould actually was not
    present, the officers’ use of the “knock and talk” tactic, by
    definition, was unsuccessful and therefore the officers should have
    pursued their investigation by other means and not by an illegal
    search.
    The majority is worried that affirming the district court’s
    decision to grant the motion to suppress will mean that law officers
    cannot use the “knock and talk” tactic if they are apprehensive of
    being ambushed.    But voluntary engagement with law officers and not
    51
    an ambush situation is precisely what the “knock and talk” tactic
    requires and to define the tactic as broadly as the majority has is
    essentially to do away with the warrant requirement.             In other
    words, in some situations, such as this case, the “knock and talk”
    tactic progressed as far as lawful when Gould was non-responsive or
    not present.    At that point, the officers should have pursued other
    means to continue their investigation–-that is what the Fourth
    Amendment requires.      The majority’s opinion is an unreasonable
    extension of the “knock and talk” tactic and does not fully account
    for    the   well-established   Fourth   Amendment   principle    that   a
    warrantless nonconsensual search of a home is presumed unreasonable
    and in this case there was no exigency and nothing necessitating the
    intrusion into Gould’s bedroom.
    III.
    We decided to review en banc the Gould case to determine:
    (1) whether the rule established in Wilson that a protective sweep
    of a home was limited to an arrest situation, as defined by the
    Supreme Court in Buie, was correct; and (2) if the protective sweep
    exception to the search warrant requirement is not limited as Wilson
    and Buie indicate, whether the warrantless search of Gould’s bedroom
    was reasonable.
    The majority characterizes the rule outlined in Wilson as a
    “bright-line” rule; Wilson, however, directly follows the precise
    language used by the Supreme Court in its            definition of the
    52
    protective sweep exception in Buie. See 
    Wilson, 36 F.3d at 1305-06
    .
    The protective sweep exception as outlined in Buie requires the
    following three elements.              First, the officers must be executing an
    arrest warrant in a suspect’s home.                    See generally Buie, 
    494 U.S. 325
    (mentioning over 65 times the concept of arrest in a home when
    defining a protective sweep).                 Second, the officers must perceive
    some   danger      from     another      person      or    persons.          
    Id. at 332-36
    (indicating that not every in-home arrest will justify a protective
    sweep and listing several factors that are used to validate the
    reasonableness of the perceived danger, such as the nature of the
    crime for which the arrest is being executed, the likely presence
    of cohorts, and the time and place of arrest).                          Third, the search
    may only be a quick and limited cursory inspection of those places
    another person might be hiding.                 
    Id. at 335-36.
             Here, the majority
    has ignored the first two elements and only addressed the third.27
    Of course, there is good reason for the limited definition as
    outlined in Buie and tracked by this Court in Wilson.                                    Such a
    27
    The Supreme Court has never expanded the concept of the protective sweep from its
    original limited definition in Buie. In fact, there are only three Supreme Court cases even citing
    Buie, none of which include a discussion of the contours of the protective sweep. See Richards v.
    Wisconsin, 
    520 U.S. 385
    , 394 (1997); United States v. James Daniel Good Real Property, 
    510 U.S. 43
    , 67 (1993); Horton v. California, 
    496 U.S. 128
    , 140 (1990). The only slightly relevant
    citation occurred in Richards where the Supreme Court addressed the appropriate balance
    between legitimate law enforcement concerns at issue in the execution of search warrants and
    individual privacy interests affected by no-knock 
    entries. 520 U.S. at 394
    . The Richards Court
    cited Buie for its allowance of “a protective sweep of a house during an arrest where the officers
    have ‘a reasonable belief based on specific and articulable facts that the area to be swept harbors
    an individual posing a danger to those on the arrest scene.’” 
    Id. (citing Buie,
    494 U.S. at 337)
    (emphasis added).
    53
    definition avoids the quagmire that the majority finds itself in
    after rejecting the language in Buie and Wilson.            The majority is
    forced to fashion a new exception with alternative elements that are
    vague; and as such the new exception swallows the rule that a
    warrant   is   generally   required   for   an   in-home    search.         After
    fashioning a new exception the majority is then forced to apply its
    vague standards and determine if the search at issue here was
    reasonable.      Because   the   district   court   did    not   address     the
    reasonableness of the search, it would seem more appropriate to me
    for this Court to remand the case for a more detailed inquiry into
    the complicated and extremely fact specific issue of reasonableness.
    See 
    Buie, 494 U.S. at 337
    (noting that remand was required to
    determine if the protective sweep, although conducted in the context
    of the execution of an arrest warrant, was based on a reasonably
    perceived threat of danger from an additional person and was a
    limited cursory inspection as defined by the Supreme Court). Remand
    to address this complicated inquiry, however, would not be necessary
    if the holding of Buie is followed.
    First, the element that the officers must be executing an
    arrest warrant in a home in order to conduct a protective sweep
    cannot be so easily disposed of and an alternative substituted for
    it.   As the Buie court noted:
    The risk of danger in      the context of an arrest in          the
    home is as great as, if    not greater than, it is in an        on-
    the-street or roadside     investigatory encounter. . .         . A
    protective sweep . .       . occurs as an adjunct to            the
    54
    serious step of taking a person into custody for the
    purpose of prosecuting him for a crime. Moreover, unlike
    an encounter on the street or along a highway, an in-home
    arrest puts the officer at the disadvantage of being on
    his adversary’s 
    “turf.” 494 U.S. at 333
    ; see also Knowles v. Iowa, 
    525 U.S. 113
    , 117 (1998)
    (finding that the danger to the officers “flows from the fact of the
    arrest, and its attendant proximity, stress, and uncertainty”).                                   In
    place        of   this   element     the     majority       substitutes        the     following
    element: the police presence in the home must be for a legitimate
    law enforcement purpose.               The majority’s element is an inadequate
    substitution.            There are many legitimate law enforcement purposes
    that may permit officers to do something short of conducting a
    warrantless search, e.g., enter a home for the purpose of talking
    to the person who gave the officers consent and had authority to
    consent to the entry.              Such a legitimate purpose does not somehow
    give the officer carte blanche to then search the house.28                                 In the
    protective sweep situation, as defined by Buie, the officers must
    have more than a legitimate purpose to be in the home, the officers
    must have a compelling reason, i.e., be in the house under the
    obligation to execute an arrest warrant.                         This requirement is, in
    fact, the essence of the Buie holding and this requirement is a
    limiting factor on the officers’ conduct that is missing from the
    majority’s opinion.
    28
    See the discussion of the problems with the majority’s analysis of consent in section I of
    this dissent.
    55
    Second, Buie is not about fear of the person to be 
    arrested. 494 U.S. at 328
    (noting that Buie was already arrested when the
    protective sweep was conducted). Such a fear or concern for officer
    safety is already sufficiently protected by allowing the officers
    to actually execute the arrest warrant and search for the person
    subject    to    the   arrest    if    necessary.      See,     e.g.,    Chimel    v.
    California, 
    395 U.S. 752
    , 763 (1969) (addressing both the threat
    posed by the arrestee and the scope of a search incident to an
    arrest).    Buie is about a reasonable, articulable suspicion “that
    the area to be swept harbors an individual posing a danger to those
    on the arrest scene.”          
    Buie, 494 U.S. at 337
    .         Here, there is no
    such fear, and the majority opinion allows the officers to do
    something they normally would need a warrant to do, search a
    residence which they do not have consent to search and where the
    resident is either not present or not interested in talking to them.
    Again, the majority’s neglect of this requirement leads to an overly
    broad new exception to the Fourth Amendment.
    The majority opinion mentions two temporal limitations on the
    protective sweep that were articulated in Buie.                 These limitations
    are: that the protective sweep “last[] no longer than is necessary
    to dispel the reasonable suspicion of danger and in any event no
    longer    than    it   takes    to    complete   the   arrest    and    depart    the
    premises.”       
    Buie, 494 U.S. at 335-36
    .          The majority, changing the
    language of these limitations slightly, neglects the fact that these
    56
    limitations depend on the arrest and the officers search for someone
    other than the arrestee and therefore apart from these requirements
    the limitations are hollow and void of any objective criteria, i.e.,
    the duration of the arrest, by which to evaluate the officers’
    conduct.    Under   the   majority’s   view   these   limitations   are
    meaningless and this again points out the vagueness of the majority
    holding in this case.
    Finally, in my view this case should have never been prosecuted
    in federal court.   The original criminal conduct which precipitated
    the arrest was strictly local in nature:      one Louisiana resident
    (Forehand) reported to the sheriff of one Louisiana parish (and not
    to the FBI, the DEA, the ATF, or the U.S. Marshall Service) that
    another Louisiana resident (Gould) had made oral threats to kill two
    Louisiana judges (not federal judges) and some other Louisiana
    residents (not residents of another state) apparently because of a
    proceeding of some sort in a Louisiana court (not a federal court)
    relating to a state law claim (not a federal question).        If the
    admonitions in United States v. Lopez, 
    514 U.S. 549
    (1995) and
    United States v. Morrison, 
    529 U.S. 598
    (2000) about drawing a line
    between local and national interests have any meaning at all, then
    this criminal investigation would have undoubtedly fallen on the
    local side of the line.   All of the law enforcement actors in this
    case were state officers.
    Furthermore, I think it would be ridiculous to conclude that
    57
    the firearms found as a result of a warrantless search in Gould’s
    closets in Gould’s bedroom in Gould’s trailer home in the woods of
    rural Louisiana had any effect whatsoever, much less a substantial
    effect, on interstate commerce as Lopez and Morrison require for a
    federal prosecution.     
    Lopez, 514 U.S. at 562-63
    ; 
    Morrison, 529 U.S. at 608-09
    .
    The events which precipitated this case occurred on October 17,
    2000. The federal indictment in this case was not handed down until
    August 9, 2001, more than 9 months later, which clearly indicates
    that   the   federal   indictment   was   an   afterthought.   To   better
    understand this anomaly and what actually happened during this
    period, I have prepared from the record a factual chronology of the
    events in this time frame which is attached as Exhibit A to this
    dissent.
    From the chronology in Exhibit A, I would suggest that the
    following conclusions should be readily drawn:
    A.    The dismissal on March 5, 2001, of the state
    solicitation for murder charge for “no probable
    cause” pulls the rug out from under the government’s
    assertion that Gould’s “threats to kill” were
    sufficiently real and immediate to justify talking
    with him even without any warrant; and
    B.    The decision of the state court on July 25, 2001, to
    grant Gould’s motion to suppress pulls the rug out
    from under the subsequent federal indictment based
    on identical facts; and should have been disclosed
    to the federal district court addressing the federal
    suppression hearing.     Had it been, the federal
    district court might well have based its decision on
    the alternate ground that the state had already
    ruled    the   seizure    of   the   firearms    was
    58
    unconstitutional.
    In summary, the Fourth Amendment is the keystone that holds up
    the arch of our Bill                of Rights which in turn is the unique
    contribution of our founding fathers to our system of government
    which        has    now   survived     longer        than   any     other      representative
    government in the world.                 In his famous dissent in Olmstead v.
    United States, Justice Brandeis called privacy-which he defined as:
    ”the right to be let alone”-“the most comprehensive of rights and
    the right most valued by civilized men.”                               
    277 U.S. 438
    , 478
    (1928)(Brandeis, J., dissenting).                    Justice Brandeis argued that the
    framers knew that Americans wanted protection from governmental
    intrusion not only for their property, but also for their thoughts,
    ideas and emotions.            Take away the Fourth Amendment and the right
    of privacy disappears.
    The deputy sheriffs here in Gould made no attempt to develop
    a   sworn          affidavit   in    writing       from     the     purported        informant,
    Forehand,29 and they therefore made no attempt to get either a
    search warrant or an arrest warrant from an independent third party
    magistrate on the basis of probable cause. I have no doubt that the
    29
    After giving oral reports over the telephone to the deputy sheriffs about Gould and after
    being present at Gould’s trailer house on the night of Gould’s arrest, Forehand disappears from
    the investigation and processing of this trial. Forehand never gave a written statement to the
    deputy sheriffs and did not testify for the government at the suppression hearing so the
    government’s case as to the need for the police to interview Gould (i.e., Gould’s threats to kill
    state judges) is based entirely on the hearsay testimony of the deputy sheriffs. There is nothing in
    this record that demonstrates the reliability or credibility of Forehand as a previous informant of
    the sheriff’s department.
    59
    deputy sheriffs believed that they were acting reasonably and with
    good intentions.    But the old adage warns us that “the road to hell
    is paved with good intentions.”      In my judgment, that is precisely
    where   the   majority   opinion   wants   to   put   us-by   unhooking   the
    “protective sweep” from its connection with the execution of an
    arrest warrant in a home, which is where the Supreme Court framed
    the concept.    In my view the gambit of getting permission to enter
    a citizen’s home in order to talk to someone and then conducting a
    protective sweep search under the guise of sensing danger to the
    investigating officer will effectively eliminate the               need   for
    complying with the Fourth Amendment and at that point we will all
    be, literally and figuratively, on the road to hell.
    Conclusion
    The majority opinion creates a new exception to the Fourth
    Amendment that is overly broad and unnecessary.                The district
    court’s granting of the motion to suppress in this case should be
    affirmed.     For these reasons, I respectfully dissent.
    60
    EXHIBIT A
    CHRONOLOGY
    1.   On October 17, 2000, the Livingston Parish Sheriff’s Officers
    on the scene arrested Gould and charged him with the state
    crime of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.   See LA.
    Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:95.1 (West 2004), in Cause No. 15571, 21st
    Judicial District Court, Livingston Parish.
    2.   On October 18, 2000, an arrest warrant was issued out of the
    East Baton Rouge Parish charging Gould with Solicitation for
    Murder.   See LA. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:28.1 (West 2004).
    3.   Gould was in the custody of the East Baton Rouge Parish from
    October 18, 2000, until March 5, 2001, when no probable cause
    was found for the Solicitation for Murder charge.
    4.   On March 5, 2001, Gould was returned to the custody of the
    Livingston Parish on the felon in possession charge.
    5.   On   May 31, 2001, Gould filed a motion to suppress evidence
    obtained without a warrant in Cause No. 15571 in the 21st
    Judicial District Court of Louisiana. Gould’s motion was based
    on his argument that all physical evidence and any statements
    to be used against him were obtained without a search warrant
    and without his consent.   An evidentiary hearing was held on
    Gould’s motion to suppress on July 25, 2001, at which one of
    61
    EXHIBIT A
    CHRONOLOGY
    the officers who arrested Gould on October 17, 2000, testified.
    At the end of this hearing the state judge granted Gould’s
    motion and bond was set and the case was continued until
    September 19, 2001.   No. 15571, Louisiana v. Kelly Gould.
    6.   Also on July 25, 2001, a federal criminal complaint was filed
    in the United States District Court for the Middle District of
    Louisiana charging Gould with being a felon in possession of a
    firearm in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1).   The person who
    swore out the affidavit was an agent of B.A.T.F. not one of the
    deputy sheriffs that was present on October 17, 2000, at
    Gould’s arrest.   This affiant was apparently unaware of the
    fact that the state complaint on the solicitation for murder
    charge had been dismissed and the fact that the state felon in
    possession charge had been put on hold after the granting of
    Gould’s motion to suppress since he made no mention of those
    proceedings.
    7.   Gould made his state bond on July 26, 2001, and was released
    from state custody.
    8.   On August 9, 2001, Gould was indicted by a federal grand jury
    on the federal gun charge.
    62
    EXHIBIT A
    CHRONOLOGY
    9.    On August 17, 2001, there was a federal detention hearing and
    following the hearing Gould was ordered detained on the federal
    charges.
    10.   On September 19, 2001, the 21st Judicial District Court of
    Louisiana continued the state case against Gould subject to
    reassignment to another judge.
    11.   On December 19, 2001, the federal district court held a hearing
    concerning Gould’s motion to suppress.   At this hearing there
    was testimony from the following local law officers: Detective
    Jim Brown who was in charge of the case for the Livingston
    Parish Sheriff’s Office testified; his partner the night of the
    visit to Gould’s trailer, Officer Jason Ard testified; and
    Lieutenant Carl Krester, who had been assigned the case from
    the East Baton Rouge Sheriff’s Office and was also present at
    Gould’s trailer, testified for the government.   Dennis Cabral
    who worked with and lived with Gould and was present the night
    of the search testified for the defense.    The B.A.T.F. agent
    who swore out the federal complaint on July 25, 2001, did not
    testify.   Likewise, Forehand did not testify.
    12.   On April 2, 2002, the federal district court granted Gould’s
    federal motion to suppress.
    63
    EXHIBIT A
    CHRONOLOGY
    13.   After granting the motion to suppress the federal district
    court   continued   the   trial    date   indefinitely   pending   the
    government’s appeal of the granting of the motion to suppress.
    14.   Gould’s motion to be released on bond pending appeal was denied
    on June 3, 2002, and according to the record Gould has remained
    in federal custody.
    64
    EXHIBIT A
    CHRONOLOGY
    65