Ming Dai v. William P. Barr ( 2019 )


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  •                 FOR PUBLICATION
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
    MING DAI,                                No. 15-70776
    Petitioner,
    Agency No.
    v.                       A205-555-836
    WILLIAM P. BARR, Attorney
    General,                                   ORDER
    Respondent.
    Filed October 22, 2019
    Before: Sidney R. Thomas, Chief Circuit Judge, and
    Stephen S. Trott and Mary H. Murguia, Circuit Judges.
    Order;
    Statement Respecting Denial by Judge Trott;
    Dissent by Judge Callahan;
    Statement Respecting Denial by Judges O’Scannlain
    and Trott;
    Dissent by Judge Collins
    2                         DAI V. SESSIONS
    SUMMARY*
    Immigration
    The panel denied a petition for rehearing en banc on
    behalf of the court.
    Dissenting from the denial of rehearing en banc, Judge
    Callahan, joined by Judges Bybee, Bea, M. Smith, Ikuta,
    Bennett, R. Nelson, Bade, Collins, and Lee, wrote that in
    denying en banc review, the court has condoned a decision by
    a three-judge panel that takes the extraordinary position of
    holding that, absent an explicit adverse credibility ruling, an
    immigration judge must take as true an asylum applicant’s
    testimony that supports a claim for asylum, even in the face
    of other testimony from the applicant that would undermine
    an asylum claim, thereby restoring this circuit’s prior errant
    “deemed true” rule that Congress abrogated when it enacted
    the REAL ID Act. Judge Callahan explained that the panel’s
    decision ties the hands of IJs who are presented with
    conflicting evidence, effectively forcing them to accept an
    applicant’s favorable testimony as the whole truth and to
    disregard unfavorable evidence—even when it is the
    applicant’s own testimony—unless they affirmatively make
    an adverse credibility finding, thus transforming the lack of
    an express adverse credibility ruling into an affirmative
    conclusion that the applicant’s proffered reason for seeking
    asylum is true. Judge Callahan wrote that the panel’s
    decision is contrary to the statute, this court’s precedent, and
    the rulings of sister circuits, and that in addition to
    *
    This summary constitutes no part of the opinion of the court. It has
    been prepared by court staff for the convenience of the reader.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                        3
    overstepping the court’s limited role in reviewing the
    agency’s decision, is also bad policy. Judge Callahan also
    wrote that by directing the agency to grant withholding relief
    and treat petitioner as eligible to asylum, the panel
    compounded its error by failing to follow the ordinary
    remand rule, and allowing the agency the first shot at
    applying the majority’s new rule.
    Dissenting from the denial of rehearing en banc, Judge
    Collins, joined by Judges Bybee, Bea, Ikuta, Bennett,
    R. Nelson, and Bade, agreed with Judge Callahan that the
    panel majority’s opinion effectively revives this court’s
    discredited prior “deemed-true” rule in contravention of
    controlling statutory language, precedent of this court and
    other circuits, and common sense. In Judge Collins’s view,
    the problems with the panel majority’s opinion run even
    deeper by committing a further serious legal error, and
    reinforcing a circuit split, in holding that the REAL ID Act
    did not abrogate a second “deemed-credible” rule, whereby
    this court conclusively presumes an applicant’s testimony to
    be credible unless the agency has made an explicit adverse
    credibility finding. Judge Collins wrote that the REAL ID
    Act expressly abrogated the deemed-credible rule entirely and
    replaced it with, at most, a rebuttable presumption of
    credibility. Judge Collins reasoned that the Board’s express
    statement that petitioner was not “truthful” was a permissible
    application of the REAL ID Act’s rebuttable presumption of
    credibility, and sufficiently explicit to preclude this court’s
    application of the deemed-credible rule in this case.
    Respecting the denial of rehearing en banc, Judge Trott,
    joined by Judge R. Nelson, wrote that instead of following the
    REAL ID Act, this court has perpetuated a contrived rule that
    in the absence of an adverse credibility finding, a petitioner
    4                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    must be deemed credible, and then used that conclusion to
    override an IJ’s and the Board’s well-supported determination
    that the petitioner’s case was not sufficiently “persuasive” to
    meet his burden of proof. Judge Trott wrote that, in doing so,
    the panel has rewritten the REAL ID Act, ignored Congress,
    and created an inter-circuit split.
    Respecting the denial of rehearing en banc, Judges
    O’Scannlain and Trott agreed with the views expressed by
    Judge Callahan in her dissent from the denial of rehearing en
    banc.
    COUNSEL
    David Z. Su, Law Offices of David Z. Su, West Covina,
    California; David J. Zimmer, Goodwin Procter LLP, Boston,
    Massachusetts; William M. Jay, Goodwin Procter LLP,
    Washington, D.C.; for Petitioner.
    Aimee J. Carmichael, Senior Litigation Counsel; Mary Jane
    Candaux and John W. Blakeley, Assistant Directors; Donald
    Keener, Deputy Director; Office of Immigration, Civil
    Division, United States Department of Justice, Washington,
    D.C.; for Respondent.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                                 5
    ORDER
    The full court has been advised of the petition for
    rehearing en banc. A judge requested a vote on whether to
    rehear the matter en banc. The matter failed to receive a
    majority of the votes of the nonrecused active judges in favor
    of en banc consideration. Fed R. App. P. 35. Judge Miller
    was recused and did not participate in the vote.
    The petition for rehearing en banc is denied. Attached are
    dissents from and statements respecting the denial of
    rehearing en banc.
    TROTT, Circuit Judge,** with whom R. NELSON, Circuit
    Judge, joins, respecting the denial of rehearing en banc:
    Instead of following the REAL ID Act (“Act”), our court
    has perpetuated a contrived rule that in the absence of an
    adverse credibility finding, a petitioner must be deemed
    credible. We then use that conclusion to override an
    Immigration Judge’s (“IJ”) and the Board of Immigration
    Appeals’ (“Board”) well-supported determination that this
    petitioner’s case was not “persuasive.” In so doing, we have
    rewritten the Act. We have a long history of ignoring
    Congress and the Supreme Court, and here we have done it
    **
    As a judge of this court in senior status, I no longer have the power
    to vote on calls for rehearing cases en banc or formally to join a dissent
    from failure to rehear en banc. See 
    28 U.S.C. § 46
    (c); Fed. R. App. P.
    35(a). Following our court’s general orders, however, I may participate in
    discussions of en banc proceedings. See Ninth Circuit General Order
    5.5(a).
    6                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    again. See Dai v. Sessions, 
    916 F.3d 731
    , 875–93 (9th Cir.
    2019) (Trott, J., dissenting). Moreover, the panel majority
    opinion creates an intercircuit conflict. I will address that
    problem later in Part IV.
    I
    As explained in his thorough and convincing decision,
    Immigration Judge Stephen Griswold, determined that Dai
    had not met his statutory burden of persuasion on the central
    issue of whether he was eligible as a refugee for asylum. The
    documented fatal flaws in Dai’s case were (1) his glaring
    attempt to deceive the asylum officer by concealing highly
    probative damaging facts that go to the very core of his case,
    facts that Dai also omitted from his Form I-589 application
    for asylum, (2) his admission when pressed that his deceit
    was intentional, driven by his understanding that the
    concealed evidence would damage his probability of success,
    (3) his inadequate explanations for the contradictions in his
    presentation, (4) his telling demeanor on cross examination,
    and (5) the “real story” behind his departure from China and
    his decision not to return with his wife and daughter. The IJ
    regarded these flaws as demonstrating a “lack of
    forthrightness.” Accordingly, the IJ concluded pursuant to
    the language of the Act that Dai’s case was not “persuasive.”
    Reviewing de novo whether Dai had adequately met his
    burden of persuasion that he was eligible for asylum, the
    Board of Immigration Appeals agreed that he had not. To
    support its conclusion, the Board referenced the same
    material flaws the IJ found as facts. Their reasoned decision
    should end this case, but with all respect, the panel majority
    and now our court have converted this straightforward matter
    into a textbook example of elevating form over substance,
    DAI V. SESSIONS                    7
    taking a blue pencil to the Act’s requirement that an
    applicant’s case must be “persuasive” and inappropriately
    substituting our judgment for the Board’s.
    II
    Here is Judge Griswold’s compelling decision. Reading
    it illustrates how wrong our court’s analysis is.
    I have carefully considered the respondent’s
    testimony and evidence and for the following
    reasons, I find that the respondent has failed
    to meet his burden of proving eligibility for
    asylum.
    The principal area of concern with regard to
    the respondent’s testimony arose during the
    course of his cross-examination. On cross-
    examination, the respondent was asked about
    various aspects of his interview with an
    Asylum Officer.         The Department of
    Homeland Security also submitted the notes
    of that interview as Exhibit 5. The respondent
    was asked specific questions regarding several
    aspects of his testimony before the Asylum
    Officer. In the course of cross-examination,
    the respondent was asked regarding his
    questions and answers as to whether his wife
    and daughter travelled with him to the United
    States. The respondent’s responses included
    the question of whether the asylum officer had
    asked him if his wife and daughter travelled
    anywhere other than to Taiwan and Hong
    Kong. The respondent conceded that he was
    8                 DAI V. SESSIONS
    asked this question and that he replied yes,
    they had travelled to Taiwan and Hong Kong.
    The respondent was asked whether the
    Asylum Officer inquired whether his wife and
    daughter had travelled elsewhere. The
    respondent then testified before the Court that
    he was asked this question, “but I was
    nervous.” In this regard, I note that the
    respondent did not directly answer the
    question; instead leapt directly to an
    explanation for what his answer may have
    been, namely that he was nervous. The
    respondent was then asked specifically
    whether the Asylum Officer asked him if his
    wife had travelled to Australia in 2007. The
    respondent confirmed that he had been asked
    this question, and he confirmed that the
    answer was in the affirmative.             The
    respondent also confirmed that the Asylum
    Officer had asked him whether she had
    travelled anywhere else. He confirmed that he
    had been so asked. The respondent was then
    asked whether he answered “no,” that she had
    not travelled anywhere else. The respondent
    answered that he believed so, that he had so
    answered. The respondent was then asked,
    during the course of cross-examination, why
    he had not said to the Asylum Officer that yes,
    she had travelled to the United States. The
    respondent replied that he had not thought of
    it. He stated that they did come with him
    (meaning his wife and daughter) and that he
    thought the Asylum Officer was asking him if
    they had travelled anywhere other than the
    DAI V. SESSIONS                      9
    United States. He explained that he did so
    because he assumed the U.S. Government had
    the records of their travel to the United States.
    On further questioning, the respondent
    eventually hesitated at some length when
    asked to further explain why he did not
    disclose spontaneously to the Asylum Officer
    that his wife and daughter had come with him.
    The respondent paused at some length and I
    observed that the respondent appeared
    nervous and at a loss for words. However,
    after a fairly lengthy pause, the respondent
    testified that he is afraid to say that his wife
    and daughter came here and why they went
    back. The respondent was asked whether he
    told the Asylum Officer that he was afraid to
    answer directly. The respondent initially
    testified that he forgot and did not remember
    whether he said that. He again reiterated that
    he was very nervous. He was then asked the
    question again as to whether he told the
    Asylum Officer that he was afraid to answer
    why his wife and daughter had gone back. He
    then conceded that maybe, yes, he had
    answered in that fashion. The respondent was
    asked whether the Asylum Officer inquired
    why his wife and daughter went back, and the
    respondent conceded that he had been so
    asked, and he further conceded that he replied
    because school in the United States costs a lot
    of money (referring to the schooling for his
    daughter). The respondent was then asked to
    confirm that the Asylum Officer eventually
    asked him to tell him the real story as to why
    10                  DAI V. SESSIONS
    his family travelled to the United States and
    returned to China. The respondent confirmed
    that he was asked this question and when
    asked, whether he replied that it was because
    he wanted a good environment for his child
    and because his wife had a job and he did not
    and that that is why he stayed here. He
    confirmed that he did, in fact, say that. The
    respondent was further asked, during the
    course of testimony in court, why his wife and
    daughter returned to China. In this regard, the
    respondent testified that they came with him,
    but returned to China several weeks after
    arrival. He testified that they did so because
    his father-in-law was elderly and needed
    attention, and because his daughter needed to
    graduate school in China.
    The respondent further claimed that his wife
    had, in fact, suffered past persecution in the
    form of a forced abortion and the respondent
    confirmed that he feared his wife and
    daughter would suffer future persecution. In
    this regard, the respondent qualified his
    answer by saying that his wife was now on an
    IUD, apparently thereby suggesting that the
    risk of persecution is reduced. However, the
    respondent did concede that the risk of future
    persecution also pertains to his daughter.
    Indeed, in this regard, the respondent testified
    that this is, at least in part, why he applied for
    asylum.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                      11
    As to the contents of Exhibit 5, I give the notes
    full weight, insofar as the respondent has
    confirmed the contents of the questions and
    answers given during the course of that
    interview. Furthermore, I note that in the
    sections in which the respondent equivocated,
    stating that he was nervous and not sure that
    he gave those precise answers, I nevertheless
    give the Asylum Officer’s notes some
    substantial weight, in that they are consistent
    with the respondent’s testimony in court.
    Specifically, I note that the Asylum Officer’s
    notes state that the respondent ultimately
    indicated that he was afraid of giving straight
    answers regarding his daughter and wife’s trip
    to the United States and return to China. And
    while the respondent did not confirm this in
    court, he did give a similar answer as to why
    he was testifying in this regard. In other
    words, the respondent appears to have stated,
    both before the Asylum Officer and in court
    that he did not spontaneously disclose the
    travel of his wife and daughter with him to the
    United States and their return because he was
    nervous about how this would be perceived by
    the Asylum Officer in connection with his
    claim. I further note that the Asylum
    Officer’s notes are internally consistent with
    regard to references to earlier questions, such
    as whether the respondent had stated that he
    applied for a visa with anyone else. At page 2
    of the notes contained in Exhibit 5, the
    respondent was asked whether he applied for
    his visa with anyone else and the notes
    12                  DAI V. SESSIONS
    indicated that he stated that, “no, I applied by
    myself.” Similarly, I note that the testimony
    before the Asylum Officer and the Court is
    consistent with the omission in the
    respondent’s Form I-589 application for
    asylum, of an answer to the question of the
    date of the previous arrival of his wife, if she
    had previously been in the United States. See
    Exhibit 2, page 2, part A.II, question 23.
    When asked about this omission, the
    respondent expressed surprise, stating that he
    told the preparer about their trip and indicated
    that he thought it had been filled out.
    Notwithstanding the respondent’s statement in
    this regard, I do observe that the omission is
    consistent with his lack of forthrightness
    before the asylum office as to his wife and
    daughter’s travel with him to the United
    States and their subsequent return to China
    shortly thereafter.
    In sum, the respondent’s testimony before the
    Court and his testimony regarding the Asylum
    Officer notes, as well as the notes themselves,
    clearly indicate that the respondent failed to
    spontaneously disclose that his wife and
    daughter came with him and then returned to
    China. His testimony and the notes also
    consistently demonstrate that the respondent
    paused at length, both before the Court and
    before the Asylum Officer, when asked about
    this topic. His testimony and the Asylum
    Officer notes are also consistent in indicating
    that he ultimately testified that he was afraid
    DAI V. SESSIONS                     13
    to say that his wife came here and was afraid
    of being asked about why she went back.
    Furthermore, the respondent has conceded
    that he was asked to “tell the real story”
    about his family’s travel to the United States
    by the Asylum Officer, and that he replied that
    he wanted a good environment for his child
    and his wife had a job, but he did not, and
    that is why he stayed here.
    In Loho v. Mukasey, 
    531 F.3d 1016
    , 1018–19
    (9th Cir. 2008), the Ninth Circuit addressed
    the situation in which an asylum applicant has
    found safety in the United States and then
    returns to the country claimed of persecution
    before eventually finding asylum in the
    United States. The Ninth Circuit held that the
    applicant’s voluntary return to the country of
    claimed persecution may be considered in
    assessing both credibility and whether the
    respondent has a well-founded fear of
    persecution in that country. Here, while the
    respondent himself has not returned to China,
    his wife and daughter did. Indeed they did so
    shortly after arriving in the United States, and
    the respondent confirmed that they did so
    because the schooling is cheaper for his
    daughter in China, as well as because his
    father-in-law is elderly and needed to be cared
    for. The respondent also told the Asylum
    Officer that the “real story” about whey [sic]
    his family returned was that his wife had a job
    and he did not, and that is why he stayed here.
    This is consistent with respondent’s testimony
    14                  DAI V. SESSIONS
    before the Court that he did not have a job at
    the time he came to the United States.
    Furthermore, I note that the respondent’s
    claim of persecution is founded on the alleged
    forced abortion inflicted upon his wife. That
    is the central element of his claim. The
    respondent claims that he himself was
    persecuted through his resistance to that
    abortion. Nevertheless, the fact remains that
    the fundamental thrust of the respondent’s
    claim is that his wife was forced to have an
    abortion. In this regard, the respondent’s wife
    therefore clearly has an equal, or stronger,
    claim to asylum than the respondent himself,
    assuming the facts which he claims are true.
    The respondent was asked why his wife did
    not stay and apply for asylum and he replied
    that he did not know they could apply for
    asylum at the time they departed. The
    respondent was then asked why he stayed here
    after they returned; he said because he was in
    a bad mood and he wanted to get a job and a
    friend of mine is here.
    While Loho v. Mukasey applies to the
    applicant himself returning to China, I find
    that the reasoning of the Ninth Circuit in that
    case is fully applicable to the respondent’s
    situation in that his wife, who is the primary
    object of the persecution in China, freely
    chose to return to China. I do not find that the
    respondent’s explanations for her return to
    China while he remained here are adequate.
    The respondent has stated that he was in a bad
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       15
    mood and that he had found a job and had a
    friend here. The respondent has also indicated
    that his daughter’s education would be
    cheaper in China than here, and he has also
    indicated that his wife wanted to go to take
    care of her father. I do not find that these
    reasons are sufficiently substantial so as to
    outweigh the concerns raised by his wife and
    daughter’s free choice to return to China after
    having allegedly fled that country following
    his wife’s and his own persecution.
    In view of the for[e]going, I find that the
    respondent has failed to meet his burden of
    proving eligibility for asylum under Section
    208(a) of the Act.
    (Emphasis added).
    III
    Assuming for the sake of argument only that the
    Immigration Judge’s findings of Dai’s (1) “lack of
    forthrightness,” (2) guilty demeanor, (3) inadequate
    explanations for his admittedly contradictory answers, and
    (4) willful concealment of relevant information did not
    amount to an “explicit” adverse credibility determination,
    then Dai is statutorily entitled to a “rebuttable presumption of
    credibility on appeal” – to the Board. On appeal to the Board,
    however, they dismissed this presumption, as was their
    statutory prerogative, concluding in the words of the Act that
    Dai’s case was not persuasive:
    16                 DAI V. SESSIONS
    We review for clear error the findings of fact,
    including determinations of credibility, made
    by the Immigration Judge. We review de
    novo all other issues, including whether the
    parties have met the relevant burden of proof,
    and issues of discretion. The respondent filed
    his application for asylum after May 11, 2005,
    and thus review is governed by the REAL ID
    Act of 2005.
    We adopt and affirm the Immigration Judge’s
    decision in this case. The Immigration Judge
    correctly denied the respondent’s applications
    for failure to meet his burden of proof. The
    record reflects that the respondent failed to
    disclose to both the [DHS] asylum officer and
    the Immigration Judge that his wife and
    daughter had traveled with him to the United
    States and voluntarily returned to China
    shortly after.      The respondent further
    conceded that he was not forthcoming about
    this information because he believed that the
    true reasons for their return – that his wife
    had a job in China and needed to care for her
    elderly father, and that their daughter could
    attend school in China for less money than in
    the United States – would be perceived as
    inconsistent with his claims of past and feared
    future persecution.
    The Immigration Judge correctly decided that
    the voluntary return of the respondent’s wife
    and daughter to China, after allegedly fleeing
    following the persecution of the respondent
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       17
    and his wife, prevents the respondent from
    meeting his burden of proving his asylum
    claim. Contrary to the respondent’s argument
    on appeal, the Immigration Judge need not
    have made an explicit adverse credibility
    finding to nevertheless determine that the
    respondent did not meet his burden of proving
    his asylum claim. The respondent’s family
    voluntarily returning and his not being
    truthful about it is detrimental to his claim
    and is significant to his burden of proof.
    (Emphasis added) (footnote and citations omitted).
    IV
    In Kho v. Keisler, 
    505 F.3d 50
     (1st Cir. 2007), the First
    Circuit understood the Act’s effect on the issue of an
    applicant’s credibility. Not only did our sister circuit
    correctly comprehend the Act’s impact, but it considered and
    rejected our approach to this important subject.
    Kho supplements his ‘disfavored group’
    approach with an argument that because the IJ
    did not make an explicit finding concerning
    Kho’s credibility, his testimony ‘must be
    accepted as true’ by this court. Kho bases this
    proposed rule as well on a series of Ninth
    Circuit cases. . . .
    We have already rejected the proposition that
    aliens are entitled to a presumption of
    credibility on review in this court if there is no
    18                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    express credibility determination made by an
    IJ. . . .
    The REAL ID Act also provides no support
    for Kho's argument. . . .
    Kho, 
    505 F.3d at
    56–57.
    The court further explained that the Act’s reference to a
    “rebuttable presumption” applies only to an applicant’s
    appeal to the BIA, not to “reviewing courts of appeal.” 
    Id. at 56
    .
    Accordingly, not only does our court’s decision violate
    the directions of the Act, but it creates an intercircuit conflict
    with Kho.
    V
    Whether or not this petitioner attains asylum in our
    country is of minor concern, but the significant damage our
    court has done to the Act and to Congress’ attempt to stop us
    from substituting our judgment for the Board’s are matters
    that must be corrected. Thus, I disagree with our decision not
    to rehear en banc this case.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       19
    CALLAHAN, Circuit Judge, with whom BYBEE, BEA,
    M. SMITH, IKUTA, BENNETT, R. NELSON, BADE,
    COLLINS, LEE, Circuit Judges, join, dissenting from denial
    of rehearing en banc:
    Under the REAL ID Act of 2005, an immigration judge
    (IJ) has the task of evaluating an asylum application. Here, in
    denying en banc review, we have condoned a decision by a
    three-judge panel that takes the extraordinary position of
    holding that, absent an explicit adverse credibility ruling, an
    IJ must take as true an asylum applicant’s testimony that
    supports a claim for asylum, even in the face of other
    testimony from the applicant that would undermine an asylum
    claim. This makes no sense and ignores the realities of
    factfinding. Our decision restores our prior errant rule that
    Congress abrogated. As we have declined to correct this
    erroneous decision ourselves, hopefully the Supreme Court
    will do so.
    Before Congress enacted the REAL ID Act, our court had
    fashioned unique rules devised to restrict the agency’s
    discretion in adjudicating asylum claims. The REAL ID Act
    broadened the agency’s discretion. In explaining the
    amendments, Congress singled out our court for adopting
    rules that strayed from all other circuits and the Board of
    Immigration Appeals. In this case, the divided panel ignored
    this history and revived a rule that we previously said was
    “swept away” by the REAL ID Act. Aden v. Holder,
    
    589 F.3d 1040
    , 1045 (9th Cir. 2009).
    The immigration judge here was presented with
    conflicting statements from the asylum applicant, Ming Dai,
    about why he came to and sought to remain in the United
    States. The IJ did not make an express adverse credibility
    20                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    finding but instead found Dai’s testimony was not sufficiently
    persuasive to meet his burden of proof. The panel majority
    erroneously concluded that, absent an explicit, cogently-
    explained adverse credibility finding, an IJ is required to
    accept the favorable portions of an asylum applicant’s
    testimony as the unassailable truth.
    According to the panel, in weighing the persuasiveness of
    the asylum applicant’s testimony, an IJ must ignore any
    unfavorable testimony because such testimony—which could
    impugn the applicant’s credibility—“cannot be smuggled into
    the persuasiveness inquiry.” Dai v. Sessions, 
    884 F.3d 858
    ,
    872 (9th Cir. 2018). The panel’s holding allowed it to
    “expunge from the record the blatant flaws in Dai’s
    performance involving demeanor, candor, and
    responsiveness,” Dai v. Barr, 
    916 F.3d 731
    , 747 (9th Cir.
    2018) (Trott, J., dissenting), thus tying the IJ’s hands in
    carrying out the statutory role as trier of fact.
    The panel’s holding is contrary to the statute, our own
    precedent, and the rulings of our sister circuits. In addition to
    overstepping our limited role in reviewing the agency’s
    decision, the holding is also bad policy. Just because
    testimony is credible (i.e., believable), it doesn’t mean it must
    be wholly accepted as the truth. A factfinder may resolve
    factual issues against a party without expressly finding that
    party not credible. This is a regular, non-controversial
    occurrence in everyday litigation.
    On close examination, the panel’s artful evasion of the
    REAL ID Act is nothing short of an outright arrogation of the
    agency’s statutory duty as trier of fact. After adopting its ill-
    advised rule, the panel took up the mantle of factfinder and
    pronounced that Dai’s testimony is persuasive. In doing so,
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       21
    the panel “intrude[d] upon the [factfinding] domain which
    Congress has exclusively entrusted to an administrative
    agency.” INS v. Ventura, 
    537 U.S. 12
    , 16 (2002) (quoting
    SEC v. Chenery Corp., 
    318 U.S. 80
    , 88 (1943)). We are
    asking yet again to be summarily reversed for violating the
    “ordinary remand rule.” See Gonzales v. Thomas, 
    547 U.S. 183
    , 187 (2006); Ventura, 
    537 U.S. at 18
    .
    I.
    A.
    Petitioner Ming Dai, a citizen of China, challenged the
    IJ’s finding—adopted and affirmed by the BIA—that Dai’s
    testimony was not persuasive in showing that he is a refugee.
    Dai’s claim for asylum is premised on events occurring in
    China in July 2009, when family planning officials came to
    take his pregnant wife for an abortion. Dai claimed he fought
    with officers, after which he was detained for ten days and
    eventually fired from his job. While Dai was detained, his
    wife was allegedly subjected to a forced abortion.
    Dai stated in the affidavit accompanying his application
    that he sought asylum because he wished to “bring [his] wife
    and daughter to safety.” In fact, Dai’s wife and daughter had
    entered the United States with him but had voluntarily
    returned to China shortly thereafter. Dai neglected to disclose
    this information in his application, affidavit, interview with
    the asylum officer, or on direct examination before the IJ.
    The IJ found Dai’s claim for asylum unpersuasive. In the
    IJ’s view, “[t]he principal area of concern” was Dai’s
    testimony during cross-examination. The IJ noted Dai’s
    evasive answers to questions about his interview with the
    22                    DAI V. SESSIONS
    asylum officer. During cross-examination, Dai was asked
    why he had not revealed that his wife and daughter had come
    with him to the United States and why they returned to China
    shortly thereafter. “[A]fter a fairly lengthy pause,” and
    appearing to the IJ to be “nervous and at a loss for words,”
    Dai stated that he was afraid to speak about his wife and
    daughter. When asked by the asylum officer what he was
    afraid of, Dai said he was afraid the officer would ask why
    his wife and daughter willingly went back to China. Dai was
    apparently concerned that revealing the facts about his wife
    and daughter would undercut his claim that he wished to
    bring them to safety. Dai eventually admitted that the “real
    story” for why he stayed in the United States when his family
    returned to China was because “he was in a bad mood and he
    wanted to get a job and a friend of mine is here.” In essence,
    the IJ credited Dai’s “real story” that he came to the United
    States to seek employment, rather than his story that he came
    to flee persecution.
    The BIA adopted and affirmed the IJ’s decision,
    concluding that the voluntary return of Dai’s family to China
    and his failure to be forthcoming with that information was
    “detrimental to his claim” and “significant to his burden of
    proof.”
    B.
    Dai sought review in our court. In his brief, Dai
    presumed the agency made an adverse credibility finding, and
    he argued only that the IJ’s determination that he failed to
    meet his burden of proof was not supported by substantial
    evidence. The government, in response, argued Dai failed to
    show that the record compels a conclusion that he met his
    burden of proof.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                            23
    A split panel granted Dai’s petition. The majority stated
    that, under the REAL ID Act, an applicant’s testimony alone
    “is sufficient”1 to establish eligibility for asylum provided the
    “testimony is credible, is persuasive, and refers to specific
    facts sufficient to demonstrate that the applicant is a refugee.”
    Dai, 884 F.3d at 867 (citing 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii)).
    Departing from the issue as framed by the parties,2 the
    majority held that, because neither the IJ nor BIA made an
    explicit adverse credibility ruling, Dai must be “deemed
    credible.” Dai, 884 F.3d at 868. The majority concluded that
    nothing in the REAL ID Act abrogated our pre-REAL ID Act
    rule that an applicant must be deemed credible in the absence
    of an explicit adverse credibility determination. Id.
    at 868–69.
    The panel majority then expanded the impact of that
    holding by adopting a novel rule constraining an IJ’s ability
    to weigh the evidence when no express adverse credibility
    ruling has been made. The majority held that, in weighing
    the persuasiveness of an applicant’s claim, an IJ is precluded
    from considering evidence—even the applicant’s own
    admissions—that might impugn the applicant’s credibility.
    Id. at 872 (“Credibility concerns that do not justify an adverse
    credibility finding cannot be smuggled into the
    1
    The statute actually says “may be sufficient,” not “is sufficient.”
    See 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii).
    2
    As noted in Judge Trott’s dissent, because the government
    “responded only to the claims and arguments Dai included in his brief,”
    it did not have “an opportunity to respond to the majority’s inventive
    analysis, nor to the theory concocted by the majority on Dai’s behalf.”
    Dai, 916 F.3d at 733 (Trott, J., dissenting). Judge Trott predicted that
    “[b]oth sides will be surprised by my colleagues’ artful opinion—Dai
    pleasantly, the Attorney General not so much.” Id.
    24                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    persuasiveness inquiry . . . .”). That remarkable holding bears
    repeating: An applicant’s admissions (or other evidence) that
    undermine the persuasiveness of an asylum claim must be
    disregarded if that evidence also bears on the applicant’s
    credibility.
    This invented rule enabled the majority to reject the
    agency’s reasons for finding Dai’s claim not persuasive. Id.
    at 870–73. Having wiped from the record Dai’s unfavorable
    testimony, the majority assumed the role of trier of fact and
    pronounced that “nothing [in the (now-cleansed) record]
    undermines the persuasiveness of Dai’s credible testimony.”
    Id. at 871. The majority thus held that Dai was eligible for
    asylum and entitled to withholding of removal. Id. at 874.
    The majority remanded with instructions to grant withholding
    of removal and to decide whether Dai should also be granted
    asylum as a matter of discretion. Id.
    In dissent, Judge Trott wrote that “[t]he practical effect of
    the majority’s rule is breathtaking: The lack of a formal
    adverse credibility finding becomes a selective positive
    credibility finding and dooms a fact-based determination by
    an IJ and the BIA that an applicant’s case is not sufficiently
    persuasive to carry his burden of proof.” Dai, 916 F.3d
    at 735 (Trott, J., dissenting). Judge Trott argued that “[t]he
    IJ’s decision not to make an explicit adverse credibility
    finding is a red herring that throws our analysis off the scent
    and preordains a result that is incompatible with the
    evidentiary record.” Id. at 731. Judge Trott asserted that the
    majority ignored “the IJ’s fact-based explanation for his
    decision” and several material findings of fact, “each of
    which is entitled to substantial deference.” Id.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                              25
    II.
    A.
    Before the enactment of the REAL ID Act, our court
    created what we characterized as a “deemed true” rule.
    Ladha v. INS, 
    215 F.3d 889
    , 900 (9th Cir. 2000). Under that
    rule, when “an alien credibly testifies to certain facts, those
    facts are deemed true.” 
    Id.
     The “deemed true” rule
    developed as an extension of two other rules—the rule that an
    applicant would be deemed credible in the absence of an
    adverse credibility ruling and the rule prohibiting factfinders
    from requiring corroborative evidence from credible
    applicants.3 
    Id.
     at 899–900; see 
    id. at 899
     (“‘[T]his court
    does not require corroborative evidence,’ Cordon-Garcia v.
    INS, 
    204 F.3d 985
    , 992 (9th Cir. 2000), from applicants for
    asylum and withholding of deportation who have testified
    credibly.”).
    The “deemed true” rule and the rule against requiring
    corroborative evidence did not escape criticism. In prior
    opinions, members of our court observed that some of our
    rules concerning credibility and standard of proof were out of
    3
    In some of our cases, we have not been careful in our phrasing,
    using the expressions “deemed credible” and “deemed true”
    interchangeably. For example, the primary case that the panel majority
    cited in support of the proposition that the “deemed credible” rule survives
    the REAL ID Act states that the testimony must be treated as though it is
    “true.” Hu v. Holder, 
    652 F.3d 1011
    , 1013 n.1 (9th Cir. 2011). Before the
    REAL ID Act and its introduction of a requirement for corroborative
    evidence and the weighing of credible evidence, this imprecision of
    language arguably made no practical difference. The new provisions of
    
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B) now require adjudicators to distinguish between
    credibility and truth.
    26                    DAI V. SESSIONS
    line with the approach followed by other circuits and contrary
    to the limited standard of review mandated by Congress. See,
    e.g., Quan v. Gonzales, 
    428 F.3d 883
    , 892 (9th Cir. 2005)
    (O’Scannlain, J., dissenting) (“I do not believe that an IJ’s
    decision should be overturned merely because the reviewing
    panel disagrees with it or can point to a plausibly analogous
    case from our abundant and inconsistent precedent.”); Jibril
    v. Gonzales, 
    423 F.3d 1129
    , 1138 (9th Cir. 2005) (“Time and
    again, however, we have promulgated rules that tend to
    obscure th[e] clear standard [of review] and to flummox
    immigration judges, who must contort what should be a
    simple factual finding to satisfy our often irreconcilable
    precedents.”); Abovian v. INS, 
    257 F.3d 971
    , 980 (9th Cir.
    2001) (Kozinski, J., dissenting from denial of rehearing en
    banc) (“[T]his case is hardly atypical of our circuit’s
    immigration law jurisprudence. Rather, it is one more
    example of the nitpicking we engage in as part of a
    systematic effort to dismantle the reasons immigration judges
    give for their decisions.”).
    To correct our misguided rules, Congress passed the
    REAL ID Act. Congress made clear its intent to bring
    us—the Ninth Circuit—in line with other circuits and the
    BIA. See H.R. Rep. No. 109-72, at 167 (2005) (Conf. Rep.),
    as reprinted in 2005 U.S.C.C.A.N. 240 (“[T]he creation of a
    uniform standard for credibility is needed to address a
    conflict on this issue between the Ninth Circuit on the one
    hand and other circuits and the BIA.”). The REAL ID Act
    states that the applicant “may” sustain his burden through
    testimony alone, “but only if the applicant satisfies the trier
    of fact that the applicant’s testimony is credible, is
    persuasive, and refers to specific facts sufficient to
    demonstrate that the applicant is a refugee.” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii). That provision also states that “the trier
    DAI V. SESSIONS                               27
    of fact may weigh the credible testimony along with other
    evidence of record.” 
    Id.
     The REAL ID Act creates a “bias
    toward corroboration” that makes asylum litigation more like
    other types of litigation in that the trier of fact need not accept
    testimony as true even if it’s credible. Aden, 
    589 F.3d at 1045
    . Lest there was any doubt that the REAL ID Act
    abrogated our “presumed true” rule, we expressly stated so in
    Aden: “Congress has thus swept away our doctrine that ‘when
    an alien credibly testifies to certain facts, those facts are
    deemed true.’” 
    Id.
     (quoting Ladha, 
    215 F.3d at 900
    ).
    Ignoring what we said in Aden, the panel majority crafted
    a new rule that, in conjunction with the deemed credible rule,
    operates to revive the congressionally disapproved “deemed
    true” rule. This revival occurred in two steps. The panel first
    held that nothing in the REAL ID Act “explicitly or implicitly
    repealed the rule that in the absence of an adverse credibility
    finding by the IJ or the BIA, the petitioner is deemed
    credible.” Dai, 884 F.3d at 868.4
    4
    Again, precision of language is important here. Even assuming that
    when the agency makes no credibility finding, the petitioner’s testimony
    is deemed credible, that is not enough. Credibility alone doesn’t make a
    person persuasive or eligible for asylum, nor must credible testimony be
    accepted as true. Aden, 
    589 F.3d at 1044
     (“Credible testimony is not by
    itself enough.”); see also Sandie v. Att’y Gen. of U.S., 
    562 F.3d 246
    , 252
    (3d Cir. 2009) (“But the assumption that his testimony is credible does not
    imply that that testimony is sufficient to meet his burden of proof. In fact,
    credible testimony alone is not always sufficient to meet the burden of
    proof.”). An applicant’s testimony may be sufficient to show asylum
    eligibility, “but only if the applicant satisfies the trier of fact that the
    applicant’s testimony is credible, is persuasive, and refers to specific facts
    sufficient to demonstrate that the applicant is a refugee.” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii) (emphasis added).
    28                          DAI V. SESSIONS
    The panel’s second, decisive step in reviving our old
    “deemed true” rule was to limit the evidence an IJ can
    consider in weighing the persuasiveness of an applicant’s
    testimony. The panel held that if the agency makes no
    adverse credibility finding, “[c]redibility concerns . . . cannot
    be smuggled into the persuasiveness inquiry.” 
    Id. at 872
    .
    The panel reasoned that if the agency makes no adverse
    credibility finding, any evidence that would cast doubt on the
    applicant’s credibility must be ignored when considering the
    persuasiveness of the applicant’s claim. The panel deployed
    its holding to erase from the record Dai’s own admissions that
    undermine his claim. For example, the IJ accepted as fact
    Dai’s admission that he failed to disclose the truth about his
    wife’s and his daughter’s travels because he was nervous
    about how this would be perceived by the asylum officer.
    The IJ also credited Dai’s admitted “real story” for why he
    stayed in the United States when his wife and daughter
    returned home: “he was in a bad mood and he wanted to get
    a job and a friend of mine is here.” The panel’s decision bars
    the IJ from considering this and other testimony that could be
    (and was) construed as detrimental to Dai’s case.5
    The panel’s decision ties the hands of IJs who are
    presented with conflicting evidence, effectively forcing them
    to accept an applicant’s favorable testimony as the whole
    truth and to disregard unfavorable evidence—even when it is
    5
    In his dissent, Judge Trott identified other examples of Dai’s
    testimony that the IJ relied on in finding his claim unpersuasive. See Dai,
    916 F.3d at 732 (Trott, J., dissenting) (listing eight findings rendered by
    the IJ); id. at 747–48 (“My colleagues expunge from the record the blatant
    flaws in Dai’s performance involving demeanor, candor, and
    responsiveness . . . . They disregard inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and
    implausibilities in his story, and his barefaced attempt to cover up the truth
    about his wife’s and daughter’s travels and situation.”).
    DAI V. SESSIONS                             29
    the applicant’s own testimony—unless they affirmatively
    make an adverse credibility finding. The panel’s two-fold
    holding thus transforms the lack of an express adverse
    credibility ruling into an affirmative conclusion that the
    applicant’s proffered reason for seeking asylum is true.
    The resuscitation of our old “deemed true” rule flouts
    Congress’s purpose in enacting the REAL ID Act.6 First, the
    panel’s holding violates the statute’s directive that the agency
    is to conduct the factfinding and that our court may disturb
    the agency’s decision only where “any reasonable adjudicator
    would be compelled to conclude to the contrary.” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1252
    (b)(4)(B). “[T]he law is that ‘[t]o reverse the BIA
    finding we must find that the evidence not only supports that
    conclusion, but compels it.’” Aden, 
    589 F.3d at 1046
    (quoting INS v. Elias-Zacarias, 
    502 U.S. 478
    , 481 n.1
    (1992)). The majority’s holding cannot be squared with the
    limited nature of our review of the agency’s decision.
    Second, the majority’s revival of the “deemed true” rule
    nullifies the statutory provision that, “[i]n determining
    6
    The majority turns somersaults to dodge Congress’s explicit attempt
    to rein us in. The statute provides: “There is no presumption of
    credibility, however, if no adverse credibility determination is explicitly
    made, the applicant or witness shall have a rebuttable presumption of
    credibility on appeal.” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii). The majority,
    ignoring the phrase “[t]here is no presumption of credibility,” apparently
    presumed it to apply only in immigration court proceedings. The majority
    reasoned that the “rebuttable presumption of credibility on appeal” does
    not apply in our court because this case is a petition for review not an
    appeal. Dai, 884 F.3d at 869 (“A provision that applies ‘on appeal’
    therefore does not apply to our review, but solely to the BIA’s review on
    appeal from the IJ’s decision.”). According to the majority’s logic, this
    gives us carte blanche to adopt whatever rule we want on the evidence an
    IJ must (and must not) credit.
    30                         DAI V. SESSIONS
    whether the applicant has met the applicant’s burden, the trier
    of fact may weigh the credible testimony along with other
    evidence of record.” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii). We have
    held that this provision means that an “IJ need not accept
    [credible] testimony as true.” Aden, 
    589 F.3d 1044
    . If
    credible testimony must be accepted as true, there would be
    nothing for the trier of fact to “weigh.” See Doe v. Holder,
    
    651 F.3d 824
    , 830 (8th Cir. 2011) (“Congress thus rejected a
    rule that ‘credible’ testimony necessarily means that the facts
    asserted in that testimony must be accepted as true.” (citing
    Aden, 
    589 F.3d at 1045
    )).7
    B.
    In addition to contravening the language and intent of the
    REAL ID Act, the panel’s decision squarely conflicts with
    our own precedent and every other circuit to address the
    issue.
    The panel’s decision is contrary to Aden’s clear
    acknowledgement that the REAL ID Act abrogated our
    “deemed true” rule. The decision is also at odds with Singh
    v. Holder, 
    753 F.3d 826
     (9th Cir. 2014). In Singh, we held
    that the agency did not err in discounting the petitioner’s
    credible evidence that the police were looking for him, when
    weighed against country reports that stated that the police no
    7
    To be clear, the panel majority held that absent an adverse
    credibility ruling, the trier of fact must disregard any evidence that would
    call into question the applicant’s credibility. See Dai, 884 F.3d at 872
    (“Credibility concerns that do not justify an adverse credibility finding
    cannot be smuggled into the persuasiveness inquiry so as to undermine the
    finding of credibility we are required to afford Dai’s testimony.”). There
    is no meaningful difference between this holding and a suggestion that
    credible testimony must be accepted as true.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       31
    longer targeted Sikh activists like the petitioner. Singh,
    753 F.3d at 836. We recognized that “there is a difference
    between an adverse credibility determination, on the one
    hand, and a decision concerning how to weigh conflicting
    evidence, on the other hand.” Id. We emphasized that, even
    in the absence of a credibility ruling, the immigration judge
    was required to weigh the persuasiveness of the testimony
    against the record as a whole. Id.
    In Doe, the Eighth Circuit held that an applicant’s
    inability to provide important details and key
    dates—information the immigration judge identified as
    “damaging to [Doe’s] credibility,” but without making an
    “explicit” adverse credibility finding—was sufficient to
    support the BIA’s conclusion that his testimony was
    unpersuasive. Doe, 
    651 F.3d at
    829–30 (alteration in
    original). The court relied in part on our decision in Aden for
    the proposition that testimony may be “credible” without
    being persuasive, and thus need not be “accepted as true.” 
    Id. at 830
    .
    Similarly, the First Circuit has rejected the notion that a
    reviewing court is bound “to accept a petitioner’s statements
    as fact whenever an IJ simply has not made an express
    adverse credibility determination.” Kho v. Keisler, 
    505 F.3d 50
    , 56 (1st Cir. 2007). The Tenth Circuit likewise held that
    the agency was free to “discount” the applicant’s testimony
    based on “gaps” in his story, even though there was no
    adverse credibility ruling. Gutierrez-Orozco v. Lynch,
    
    810 F.3d 1243
    , 1246 (10th Cir. 2016) (citing Aden, 
    589 F.3d at
    1044–45).
    32                        DAI V. SESSIONS
    The panel’s holding splits with Aden and places us again
    at a table of one when it comes to interpreting the standards
    applicable to the agency’s determination of asylum eligibility.
    C.
    The panel majority’s rule also ignores the common sense
    reality that triers of fact may—and frequently do—decide
    factual issues against a party without affirmatively finding
    that party not credible. Opposing parties who present
    conflicting factual accounts might both be credible even if
    only one party’s version is true.8 And even if a witness’s
    testimony is treated as “honest or ‘credible,’” the “inability to
    provide important details and key dates” may render “the
    testimony unpersuasive in establishing a likelihood of
    torture.” Doe, 
    651 F.3d at 830
    .
    Indeed, we regularly require that juries decide between
    competing versions of the “facts” and we do not suggest that
    one perspective can be discounted only if the witness is not
    believable (i.e., not credible). The REAL ID Act recognizes
    this reality when it commands the trier of fact to “weigh the
    credible testimony along with other evidence of record.”
    
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii). A rule that bars an IJ from
    questioning the persuasiveness of a witness’s testimony
    unless the witness is affirmatively found to be not credible
    ignores the realities of factfinding.
    8
    As we stated in Aden, “[a]pparently honest people may not always
    be telling the truth, apparently dishonest people may be telling the
    absolute truth, and truthful people may be honestly mistaken or relying on
    unreliable evidence or inference themselves.” Aden, 
    589 F.3d at 1045
    .
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       33
    The panel’s holding here defies common sense for
    another reason. The evidence that the IJ and the BIA found
    to weigh against asylum eligibility was Dai’s own testimony.
    As Judge Trott pointed out, the agency thus credited Dai’s
    admissions that tended to undercut his claim. It makes no
    sense to say that the IJ is powerless to credit unfavorable
    testimony given by an applicant unless the IJ expressly finds
    the applicant not credible.
    This case is an instance of our court “promulgat[ing] rules
    that tend to obscure [the proper] standard and to flummox
    immigration judges.” Jibril, 
    423 F.3d at 1138
    . By essentially
    forcing IJs to make an express adverse credibility finding
    whenever they do not accept an applicant’s proffered reasons
    as the whole truth, the panel’s holding calls into question
    virtually every IJ decision denying a claim for asylum that
    lacks an explicit adverse credibility finding. Cf. Morgan v.
    Holder, 
    634 F.3d 53
    , 57 (1st Cir. 2011) (declining to require
    a “gratuitous credibility determination” when the IJ’s
    decision was premised on the petitioner’s “failure to carry his
    burden of proof”). With all of the cases we see that are
    adjudicated at the asylum eligibility stage, the impact of the
    panel’s holding will be far-reaching.
    D.
    The panel’s revival of the “deemed true” rule effectively
    strips the agency of its factfinding role, allowing us to take
    that role for ourselves. Indeed, that is exactly what the panel
    did here. After “wip[ing] the record clean of everything
    identified by the IJ and the BIA as problematic,” see Dai,
    916 F.3d at 748 (Trott, J., dissenting), the majority stepped
    into the void created by its new rule and weighed for itself the
    persuasiveness of Dai’s testimony. “[T]aking into account
    34                          DAI V. SESSIONS
    the record as a whole,” the majority concluded, “nothing
    undermines the persuasiveness of Dai’s credible testimony.”
    Dai, 884 F.3d at 871.9 That is not our role.
    In addition to creating a rule that conflicts with the statute
    and precedent, the panel compounded its error by failing to
    remand to allow the agency the first shot at applying the
    majority’s new rule against “smuggl[ing]” credibility
    concerns “into the persuasiveness inquiry,” see Dai, 884 F3d.
    at 872. The Supreme Court has summarily reversed us on
    multiple occasions for making this very error. See, e.g.,
    Thomas, 
    547 U.S. at 187
    ; Ventura, 
    537 U.S. at 18
    .
    In Ventura, a panel of our court took it upon itself to
    consider (and reject) the government’s factual argument that
    had been accepted by the IJ but not ruled on by the BIA.
    Ventura, 
    537 U.S. at
    13–14. The Supreme Court concluded
    that “well-established principles of administrative law”
    required a remand to the agency:
    Within broad limits the law entrusts the
    agency to make the basic asylum eligibility
    decision here in question. In such
    circumstances a ‘judicial judgment cannot be
    made to do service for an administrative
    judgment.’ Nor can an ‘appellate court . . .
    intrude upon the domain which Congress has
    exclusively entrusted to an administrative
    agency.’”
    9
    When the panel majority quoted the statute’s requirement of
    persuasiveness, it left out the part that an asylum applicant must “satisf[y]
    the trier of fact that the applicant’s testimony is . . . persuasive,” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii) (emphasis added). See Dai, 884 F.3d at 867.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       35
    Id. at 16 (citations omitted) (quoting Chenery Corp., 
    318 U.S. at 88
    ). In summarily reversing us, the Court stated that we
    “committed clear error,” “seriously disregarded the agency’s
    legally mandated role,” and “created potentially far-reaching
    legal precedent . . . without giving the BIA the opportunity to
    address the matter in the first instance in light of its own
    expertise.” Id. at 17.
    The clear, unanimous reversal in Ventura should have
    been enough, but, as Judge Trott put it, “old ways die hard.”
    Dai, 916 F.3d at 737 (Trott, J., dissenting). Just two years
    later, we repeated our error in Thomas, only this time we
    were sitting en banc when we adopted a new rule and applied
    it to the case without allowing the agency to consider the
    question. Thomas, 
    547 U.S. at 184
    . The Supreme Court
    agreed with the Solicitor General that not only was our failure
    to remand erroneous, our error was “obvious in light of
    Ventura.” 
    Id. at 185
    .
    Setting aside for the moment the problems with the
    majority’s new rule, the panel should have remanded to allow
    the agency an opportunity to determine Dai’s eligibility for
    asylum within the new constraints imposed by the panel’s
    decision.
    III.
    The panel’s insistence that an IJ must accept an
    applicant’s favorable testimony as the whole truth, unless the
    IJ makes an explicit adverse credibility finding, is contrary to
    our limited scope of review under the REAL ID Act, contrary
    to precedent (from both our court and other circuits), contrary
    to reality, and just plain wrong. And in directing the agency
    to grant withholding of removal and treat Dai as eligible for
    36                      DAI V. SESSIONS
    asylum, rather than allowing the agency to apply the panel’s
    new rule, the panel disregarded the Supreme Court’s repeated
    admonishment against our seizing the role statutorily given to
    the agency.
    I respectfully dissent from the denial of rehearing en banc.
    O’SCANNLAIN and TROTT, Senior Circuit Judges,
    respecting the denial of rehearing en banc:
    We agree with the views expressed by Judge Callahan in
    her dissent from the denial of rehearing en banc.
    COLLINS, Circuit Judge, with whom BYBEE, BEA,
    IKUTA, BENNETT, R. NELSON, and BADE, Circuit
    Judges, join, dissenting from the denial of rehearing en banc:
    I agree with Judge Callahan that the panel majority’s
    opinion effectively revives, for a potentially wide swath of
    cases, this court’s discredited prior rule that when an alien
    seeking asylum is either found or deemed to have testified
    credibly to certain facts, those facts will be conclusively
    deemed to be true. As Judge Callahan persuasively explains,
    the panel majority’s effective revival of this previously
    disavowed “deemed-true” rule contravenes controlling
    statutory language, the precedent of this court, the decisions
    of other circuits, and common sense. I therefore join in full
    her dissent from the order denying rehearing en banc.
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       37
    In my view, however, the problems with the panel
    majority’s opinion run even deeper, thereby greatly
    augmenting the potential damage that may flow from its
    flawed decision. Specifically, the panel majority commits a
    further serious legal error, and reinforces a circuit split, in
    holding that the REAL ID Act does not abrogate a second
    rule that we have applied in asylum cases—namely, the rule
    that unless the agency has made an explicit finding that the
    applicant’s testimony is not credible, this court will
    conclusively presume that testimony to be credible. As this
    case well illustrates, we have inflexibly applied this
    conclusive presumption as, in effect, a “Simon says” rule:
    even where (as here) the record overwhelmingly confirms
    that the agency actually disbelieved critical portions of the
    applicant’s testimony, we will nonetheless conclusively treat
    that testimony as credible if the agency did not make an
    explicit adverse credibility determination. The panel
    majority’s reaffirmation of this unwarranted “deemed-
    credible” rule thus perpetuates a regime in which—unlike
    other circuits—this court misreads the evidentiary record in
    asylum cases through the truth-distorting lens of
    counterfactual conclusive presumptions. In doing so, the
    panel majority defies Congress’s elimination of the deemed-
    credible rule in the REAL ID Act, which expressly replaces
    that rule’s conclusive presumption of credibility with (at
    most) a “rebuttable presumption of credibility.” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii) (emphasis added). But the panel
    majority here slips the Act’s bonds, and we have abetted that
    escape by failing to take this case en banc. I respectfully
    dissent.
    38                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    I.
    In reviewing whether substantial evidence supports the
    agency’s factual findings in asylum cases, this court has long
    employed a variety of “rules that tend to obscure” what
    should be a clear and deferential standard of review. Jibril v.
    Gonzales, 
    423 F.3d 1129
    , 1138 (9th Cir. 2005). Among those
    rules are a pair of presumptions about how to read the record
    in asylum cases—namely, our deemed-credible rule and our
    deemed-true rule. Under our traditional deemed-credible
    rule, both this court and the Board of Immigration Appeals
    (“BIA”) were required to apply a conclusive presumption that
    an applicant was credible unless the Immigration Judge (“IJ”)
    made an explicit adverse credibility finding. See, e.g., Dai v.
    Sessions, 
    884 F.3d 858
    , 868 (9th Cir. 2018) (“Prior to the
    REAL ID Act, we held that in the absence of an explicit
    adverse credibility finding by the IJ or the BIA we are
    required to treat the petitioner’s testimony as credible.”); She
    v. Holder, 
    629 F.3d 958
    , 964 (9th Cir. 2010) (“Absent an
    adverse credibility finding, the BIA is required to ‘presume
    the petitioner’s testimony to be credible.’”). Under our
    further deemed-true rule, the facts recited in testimony found
    to be credible—or presumed to be credible by virtue of our
    deemed-credible rule—would then in turn be taken as true.
    See, e.g., Kataria v. INS, 
    232 F.3d 1107
    , 1114 (9th Cir. 2000)
    (“In the absence of an explicit adverse credibility finding, we
    must assume that Kataria’s factual contentions are true.”);
    Yazitchian v. INS, 
    207 F.3d 1164
    , 1168 (9th Cir. 2000)
    (“Because the immigration judge found the Yazitchians’
    testimony credible, and the BIA did not make a contrary
    finding, we must accept as undisputed the facts as petitioners
    testified to them.”).
    DAI V. SESSIONS                             39
    By requiring the application of potentially counterfactual
    conclusive presumptions, these rules create an obvious risk of
    seriously distorting appellate review of the factual record.
    Thus, under our deemed-credible rule, no matter how clear it
    might be from the overall record that the IJ in fact disbelieved
    portions of the petitioner’s testimony, that obvious disbelief
    must be ignored if the IJ did not explicitly state that the IJ
    disbelieved that testimony. In turn, under our deemed-true
    rule, the facts recited in that now-deemed-credible testimony
    then have to be taken as true.
    This case well illustrates the truth-distorting effect of
    applying these conclusive presumptions. As both the BIA
    and the IJ explained, Dai’s claim that his wife’s forced
    abortion in China caused him to have a well-founded fear of
    persecution (thereby rendering him eligible for asylum) was
    severely undercut by the fact that his wife and daughter had
    not stayed with him in the United States but had voluntarily
    returned to China—a critical fact that Dai had initially
    attempted to conceal. Dai v. Barr, 
    916 F.3d 731
    , 738–42,
    746–47 (9th Cir. 2018) (Trott, J., dissenting) (reproducing
    relevant portions of the IJ’s and BIA’s decisions).1 As Judge
    Trott’s panel dissent explains in detail, the IJ made eight
    specific findings concerning Dai’s statements about his wife’s
    and daughter’s voluntary return from the United States and
    about Dai’s motivations for staying in this country, and those
    detailed findings are flatly incompatible with the view that
    the IJ credited all of Dai’s statements. 
    Id. at 732
    . Because
    the record amply confirms that the IJ obviously (even if not
    1
    At the time Judge Trott filed his amended panel dissent, the case
    caption had changed to reflect the corresponding change in Attorney
    General since the earlier filing of the panel opinion. See Fed. R. App. P.
    43(c)(2).
    40                    DAI V. SESSIONS
    explicitly) disbelieved certain of Dai’s statements about his
    family’s return, the BIA properly construed the IJ’s findings
    as establishing that Dai had “‘not be[en] truthful’” about his
    “‘family voluntarily returning.’” 
    Id. at 747
     (quoting BIA
    decision) (emphasis added by Judge Trott). Put another way,
    a review of the record confirms that any presumption that the
    IJ found Dai’s core statements to be credible has been
    overwhelmingly rebutted. Nonetheless, because the IJ did not
    explicitly find Dai’s testimony not to be credible, the panel
    majority invokes a counterfactual conclusive presumption of
    credibility—and in doing so, it “expunge[s] from the record
    the blatant flaws in Dai’s performance involving demeanor,
    candor, and responsiveness” and “disregard[s] inaccuracies,
    inconsistencies, and implausibilities in his story, and his
    barefaced attempt to cover up the truth about his wife’s and
    daughter’s travels and situation.” 
    Id.
     Moreover, by holding
    that “[c]redibility concerns that do not justify an adverse
    credibility finding cannot be smuggled into the
    persuasiveness inquiry so as to undermine the finding of
    credibility” required by the deemed-credible rule, see
    884 F.3d at 872, the panel majority effectively requires that
    this deemed-credible testimony must also be deemed true.
    See Judge Callahan’s Dissent at 30.
    The REAL ID Act sought to eliminate our use of such
    truth-distorting conclusive presumptions. Indeed, we have
    previously recognized that the REAL ID Act indisputably
    “swept away” our deemed-true rule, Aden v. Holder, 
    589 F.3d 1040
    , 1045 (9th Cir. 2009), and the panel majority’s opinion
    does not expressly dispute that point. Instead, as Judge
    Callahan explains, the panel majority effectively revives the
    deemed-true rule, as a practical matter, by improperly
    “limit[ing] the evidence an IJ can consider” in determining
    whether an alien’s credible testimony is sufficiently
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       41
    persuasive, in light of the record as a whole, to carry the
    alien’s burden of proof. See Judge Callahan’s Dissent at 28;
    see also 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(ii) (asylum applicant’s
    testimony may be sufficient to carry burden of proof if it “is
    credible, is persuasive, and refers to specific facts sufficient
    to demonstrate that the applicant is a refugee”) (emphasis
    added).
    As to the deemed-credible rule, the panel majority itself
    acknowledges that the REAL ID Act frees the BIA from
    having to follow that rule’s conclusive presumption, “so that
    the BIA [now] must only afford ‘a rebuttable presumption of
    credibility’ when the IJ does not make an adverse credibility
    finding.” Dai, 884 F.3d at 868 n.8 (citation omitted); see also
    
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii) (“if no adverse credibility
    determination is explicitly made, the applicant or witness
    shall have a rebuttable presumption of credibility on appeal”).
    Nonetheless, the panel majority insists that the REAL ID Act
    preserves the deemed-credible rule’s conclusive presumption
    in this court. 884 F.3d at 868–69. As a result, the panel
    majority reasoned that if the IJ does not make an explicit
    adverse credibility determination and the BIA does not
    explicitly determine that the resulting presumption of
    credibility on appeal has been rebutted, then this court must
    conclusively presume the petitioner’s testimony to be
    credible. Id. at 869–70. Concluding that “neither the IJ nor
    the BIA made an adverse credibility determination in Dai’s
    case,” the panel majority held that the deemed-credible rule
    applies and that this court therefore “must treat his testimony
    as credible.” Id. at 870.
    In my view, the panel majority’s invocation of the
    deemed-credible rule rests on two critical legal errors, and we
    42                    DAI V. SESSIONS
    should have taken this case en banc to correct and clarify the
    governing principles in this vital area of the law.
    II.
    First, even if the panel majority were correct in
    concluding that “neither the IJ nor the BIA made an adverse
    credibility determination,” Dai, 884 F.3d at 870; but see infra
    at 48–51, the REAL ID Act expressly prohibits this court
    from then applying a conclusive presumption of credibility.
    Instead, in reviewing the record, we would at most apply a
    rebuttable presumption of credibility—and here the facts
    found by the IJ overwhelmingly rebut any presumption that
    the IJ believed Dai’s statements concerning his family’s
    return to China. See Dai, 916 F.3d at 747 (Trott, J.,
    dissenting) (“Simply because the IJ did not say ‘I find Dai not
    credible’ but opted instead to expose the glaring factual
    deficiencies in Dai’s presentation and to explain in specific
    detail and at length why Dai had not persuasively carried his
    burden,” the majority wrongly holds that “we must
    selectively embrace [his testimony] as persuasive….”).
    A.
    Section 208(b)(1)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality
    Act (“INA”), as added by section 101(a)(3) of the REAL ID
    Act of 2005, Pub. L. 109-13, Div. B, 
    119 Stat. 302
    , 303
    (2005), directly addresses the questions of whether and when
    a presumption of credibility should be applied in reviewing
    an application for asylum.          Specifically, subsection
    208(b)(1)(B)(iii) provides, in relevant part, as follows:
    There is no presumption of credibility,
    however, if no adverse credibility
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       43
    determination is explicitly made, the applicant
    or witness shall have a rebuttable presumption
    of credibility on appeal.
    
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii). There is an obvious scrivener’s
    error in this run-on sentence (the first comma should have
    been a semi-colon), but the effect of its “however” clause is
    nonetheless clear: it abrogates our deemed-credible rule’s
    conclusive presumption of credibility and replaces it with
    only a “rebuttable presumption of credibility.” 
    Id.
     (emphasis
    added). As noted earlier, see supra at 38, under our pre-
    REAL ID Act case law, “in the absence of an explicit adverse
    credibility finding” by the IJ, both the BIA and this court
    were “required to treat the petitioner’s testimony as credible.”
    Dai, 884 F.3d at 868. But after the REAL ID Act’s
    amendments, the IJ’s failure to make an explicit adverse
    credibility determination gives rise only to a rebuttable
    presumption that the IJ found the applicant’s testimony to be
    credible. Thus, if a review of the record otherwise makes
    clear that (despite the lack of an express credibility
    determination) the IJ did not believe certain aspects of the
    applicant’s statements, the “presumption of credibility on
    appeal” is rebutted, and the BIA and this court no longer need
    to close their eyes to that fact and no longer need to pretend
    that the IJ found the testimony credible.
    The panel majority conceded that this statutory language
    abrogates our deemed-credible rule and replaces it with a
    “‘rebuttable presumption of credibility on appeal,’” Dai,
    884 F.3d at 868 (quoting 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii)), but
    the majority holds that this provision “applies only to appeals
    to the BIA, not to petitions for review in our court,” 
    id.
    (emphasis added); see also 
    id.
     at 868 n.8. That is true, the
    panel majority concludes, because the rebuttable presumption
    44                      DAI V. SESSIONS
    applies by its terms only “on appeal,” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii), and (unlike the BIA) we exercise review
    in immigration cases by way of a “petition for review” under
    section 242(a)(5) of the INA, 
    8 U.S.C. § 1252
    (a)(5), and not
    by way of an “appeal.” 884 F.3d at 869 (noting the formal
    differences between a “petition for review” and an “appeal”).
    Because, according to the panel majority, the BIA here failed
    to invoke the REAL ID Act’s rebuttable presumption to
    determine that any aspect of Dai’s testimony was not
    credible, but see infra at 48–51, this court is required to
    adhere to our deemed-credible rule and to conclusively
    presume that Dai’s testimony is credible.
    This argument fails, because the panel majority’s sharp
    distinction between a “petition for review” and an “appeal”
    is refuted by the very statutory provision on which the
    majority relies. Section 242 of the INA does in fact state that
    our review of removal orders is by means of a “petition for
    review,” 
    8 U.S.C. § 1252
    (a)(5), but elsewhere in that very
    same section, the resulting proceeding in this court is
    expressly referred to as an “appeal.” See 
    8 U.S.C. § 1252
    (b)(3)(C) (stating that, if the alien fails to file a brief in
    support of the “petition for judicial review,” then “the court
    shall dismiss the appeal”) (emphasis added). Given that the
    judicial-review provision on which the panel majority relies
    itself expressly refers to a “petition for review” as giving rise
    to an “appeal,” there is no textual basis for the panel
    majority’s conclusion that the reference to an “appeal” in
    section 208(b)(1)(B)(iii) excludes a “petition for review.”
    See Pereira v. Sessions, 
    138 S. Ct. 2105
    , 2115 (2018)
    (reaffirming, and applying to the INA, the “‘normal rule of
    statutory construction that identical words used in different
    parts of the same act are intended to have the same
    meaning’”) (citation omitted). Moreover, applying section
    DAI V. SESSIONS                          45
    208(b)(1)(B)(iii)’s “rebuttable presumption of credibility on
    appeal” to both the BIA and the courts of appeals is
    consistent with the ordinary meaning of the phrase “on
    appeal,” which refers to the process of appellate review,
    without regard to whether such review is formally
    denominated as an “appeal.” See Dai, 916 F.3d at 735 (Trott,
    J., dissenting) (“[T]he issue is one of function, not of form or
    labels.”). Congress’s explicit abrogation of the deemed-
    credible rule thus extends to this court.
    Contrary to the panel majority’s view, the abrogation of
    the deemed-credible rule in this court, and its replacement
    with a rebuttable presumption of credibility, would not
    intrude on the agency’s factfinding role. See Dai, 884 F.3d
    at 874 & n.14. As applied on appeal, the REAL ID Act’s
    rebuttable presumption provides a rule about how to read the
    record of the IJ’s factfinding: if no express adverse credibility
    determination was made by the IJ, we should presume that
    the IJ found the applicant’s statements credible unless (as
    here) the findings as a whole nonetheless confirm that certain
    statements were disbelieved by the IJ. The rebuttable
    presumption is thus not a license for the BIA or this court to
    engage in factfinding. Cf. 
    8 C.F.R. § 1003.1
    (d)(3)(iv)
    (“Except for taking administrative notice of commonly
    known facts such as current events or the contents of official
    documents, the Board will not engage in factfinding in the
    course of deciding appeals.”). Instead, it is an instruction to
    stop reading IJ decisions through the distorted lens of our
    deemed-credible rule. In fact, it is the panel majority’s
    adherence to the deemed-credible rule’s irrebuttable
    presumption of credibility that usurps the agency’s authority.
    As this case well illustrates, the effect of that rule is to require
    the Court automatically to accept as credible statements that
    46                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    the IJ plainly disbelieved. See 916 F.3d at 747 (Trott, J.,
    dissenting).
    B.
    But even if the panel majority were correct that the REAL
    ID Act’s “rebuttable presumption” of credibility does not
    apply to petitions for review in this court, that would not have
    the consequence of preserving the deemed-credible rule. On
    the contrary, it would have the opposite effect: it would mean
    that no presumption of credibility applies in this court.
    The panel majority overlooks the full language of the last
    sentence of section 208(b)(1)(B)(iii), which (1) establishes a
    general rule that “[t]here is no presumption of credibility” at
    all, and (2) then carves out an exception under which a
    rebuttable presumption of credibility will apply “on appeal”
    if “no adverse credibility determination is explicitly made.”
    
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii). Indeed, this sentence of the
    REAL ID Act previously contained only the initial language
    eliminating entirely any presumption of credibility, see
    151 Cong. Rec. H536–37 (daily ed. Feb. 10, 2005)
    (reproducing text of H.R. 418, as considered by the House);
    the exception to that general rule was later added by a House-
    Senate conference committee before final passage, see H.R.
    Conf. Rep. No. 109-72, at 73–74 (2005); see also 
    id. at 168
    ,
    reprinted in 2005 U.S.C.C.A.N. 240, 293. Accordingly, if the
    panel majority is correct that the “rebuttable presumption”
    exception does not apply in this court, then the result would
    be that the default general rule applies instead—i.e., that
    “[t]here is no presumption of credibility” in this court. That
    would abrogate the deemed-credible rule completely, and it
    would mean that this court would not use any presumption of
    credibility (rebuttable or irrebuttable) in conducting its
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       47
    otherwise deferential review of the agency’s decision. See
    Huang v. Holder, 
    744 F.3d 1149
    , 1153 (9th Cir. 2014).
    Notably, such a reading of section 208(b)(1)(B)(iii) would
    bring our approach to review in line with that of the First
    Circuit, which has “rejected the proposition that aliens are
    entitled to a presumption of credibility on review in this court
    if there is no express credibility determination made by an
    IJ.” Kho v. Keisler, 
    505 F.3d 50
    , 56 (1st Cir. 2007); see also
    Zeru v. Gonzales, 
    503 F.3d 59
    , 73 (1st Cir. 2007) (“There is
    no presumption that an alien seeking refugee status is
    credible. Nor is there an assumption that if the IJ has not
    made an express finding of non-credibility, the alien’s
    testimony must be taken as credible.”). Although Kho agrees
    with the panel majority’s conclusion that the REAL ID Act’s
    rebuttable presumption of credibility does not apply in the
    courts of appeals, see 
    505 F.3d at
    56—a conclusion I think is
    wrong for the reasons stated above—the First Circuit reached
    that conclusion only in the course of rejecting the petitioner’s
    contention that the REAL ID Act required the First Circuit to
    replace its rule of no presumption of credibility with a
    rebuttable presumption. See 
    id.
     at 56–57. The resulting First
    Circuit position—that no presumption of credibility
    applies—conflicts with our continued adherence to the
    deemed-credible rule, thereby confirming a circuit split.
    Moreover, unlike our deemed-credible rule, the First Circuit’s
    no-presumption rule is at least consistent with the default rule
    that would apply under the REAL ID Act if the First Circuit
    and the panel majority were correct in holding that the
    rebuttable-presumption exception does not apply in the courts
    of appeals. See 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii) (“There is no
    presumption of credibility….”).
    48                         DAI V. SESSIONS
    III.
    Second, the panel majority committed a wholly separate
    legal error in declining to give effect to the BIA’s express
    conclusion that, given the IJ’s detailed findings, Dai had not
    been truthful concerning his family’s return to China.
    While agreeing that the IJ had not made an “explicit
    adverse credibility finding,” the BIA here went on to note that
    the IJ’s detailed findings established that Dai had not been
    “truthful” about his “family voluntarily returning” to China.
    Dai, 916 F.3d at 747 (Trott, J., dissenting) (reproducing BIA
    decision). In thus correctly recognizing that the IJ’s findings
    precluded any suggestion that the IJ found these aspects of
    Dai’s statements credible, the BIA did not engage in its own
    factfinding, but instead properly read the record of the IJ’s
    findings in accord with the applicable rebuttable presumption
    of credibility. 
    8 U.S.C. § 1158
    (b)(1)(B)(iii); cf. 
    8 C.F.R. § 1003.1
    (d)(3)(iv) (BIA does not engage in independent
    factfinding).2 Although the BIA did not expressly invoke that
    2
    Throughout its opinion, the panel majority uses imprecise language
    that could be misread to suggest that, under the REAL ID Act, the BIA
    has independent authority to make an adverse “finding” of credibility that
    the IJ did not make. See, e.g., Dai, 884 F.3d at 863 (“We think it not too
    much to ask of IJs and the BIA that they make an explicit adverse
    credibility finding”) (emphasis added); id. at 865 (“The BIA
    acknowledged that the IJ did not make an adverse credibility finding and
    also did not make one itself.”) (emphasis added); id. at 867 (noting that the
    BIA “also made no adverse credibility finding”) (emphasis added); id.
    at 869 (deemed-credible rule applies “when the BIA has on appeal neither
    affirmed an adverse credibility finding made by the IJ nor made its own
    finding after deeming the presumption of credibility rebutted”) (emphasis
    added). Given that only the IJ engages in factual finding, and not the BIA,
    see 
    8 C.F.R. § 1003.1
    (d)(3)(iv), I construe these comments by the panel
    majority to instead be referring only to the BIA’s explicit authority under
    DAI V. SESSIONS                               49
    rebuttable presumption, its analysis in construing the IJ’s
    findings reflects precisely what the REAL ID Act authorizes
    the BIA to do. In turn, the resulting express adverse
    credibility determination that is properly recited in the BIA’s
    decision should have precluded the panel majority from
    invoking the deemed-credible rule even on that rule’s own
    terms. Cf. Tijani v. Holder, 
    628 F.3d 1071
    , 1080 (9th Cir.
    2010) (so long as the finding is “explicit,” an “adverse
    credibility finding does not require the recitation of a
    particular formula”).
    The panel majority nonetheless refused to give effect to
    the BIA’s explicit determination that the record established
    that Dai had not been truthful, and it therefore proceeded to
    apply the deemed-credible rule. The panel majority gave
    several reasons for doing so, but all of them are flawed.
    First, the panel majority wrongly dismissed the BIA’s
    determination as the “‘sort of passing statement [that] does
    not constitute an adverse credibility finding.’” Dai, 884 F.3d
    at 867 (quoting Kaur v. Holder, 
    561 F.3d 957
    , 962–63 (9th
    Cir. 2009)) (emphasis added). As Judge Trott’s dissent
    makes clear, the BIA’s express adverse credibility
    determination on this point was not a “passing” one—it
    related directly to the central issue of why Dai sought to
    remain in the United States, and it refuted his claim that he
    had a well-founded fear of persecution if he returned to
    China. See Dai, 916 F.3d at 747–48 (Trott, J., dissenting).
    the REAL ID Act to determine that the record rebuts the presumption that
    the IJ found the applicant credible. To avoid any suggestion that the BIA
    is itself engaging in independent factfinding, I will refer in this dissent to
    the BIA’s “determination” concerning what the IJ’s findings show about
    the applicant’s credibility.
    50                     DAI V. SESSIONS
    For the same reasons, the panel majority is equally wrong in
    its assertion that Dai’s untruthfulness related only to a
    “tangential point.” Dai, 884 F.3d at 873.
    The panel majority’s citation of Kaur only highlights its
    error on this score. In Kaur, we held that the BIA erred when
    it invoked the IJ’s vague and passing comment that “there are
    certain instances where this court does not find the
    Applicants’ testimony to be credible” in order to overturn the
    IJ’s explicit “affirmative credibility finding” as to one of the
    two Applicants—i.e., Kaur. 
    561 F.3d at
    962–63; see also 
    id. at 962
     (noting that the IJ had found that Kaur was “a
    convincing witness” with a “credible demeanor” and whose
    “testimony was detailed, consistent and plausible”). As we
    explained, the IJ’s “passing” and “selected reference” was
    “not even specific to Kaur” and could not properly be read to
    “undermine or detract” from the specific and detailed
    “positive credibility finding” as to Kaur. 
    Id. at 963
    ; see also
    
    id.
     (“From this truncated reference, one would be hard
    pressed to identify any basis for finding a lack of credibility
    as the IJ identified none.”). Here, in sharp contrast to Kaur,
    (1) the BIA did not overturn an express finding of credibility
    by the IJ; and (2) the BIA made a specific determination that
    the IJ’s findings established that Dai was not credible as to a
    particular point.
    Second, the panel majority alternatively stated that the
    BIA’s determination that Dai had “lied about one particular
    fact” could be disregarded because it did not amount to a
    “general adverse credibility finding.” Dai, 884 F.3d at 867
    (emphasis added). That is plainly incorrect, and the
    implications of such a rule would be quite troubling. The
    normal rule in any adjudication is that a trier of fact may
    believe or disbelieve a witness’s testimony in whole or in
    DAI V. SESSIONS                       51
    part, see, e.g., Li v. Holder, 
    738 F.3d 1160
    , 1163 (9th Cir.
    2013), and there is no basis for adopting, in the immigration
    context, the distinctive (and illogical) rule that credibility
    must be determined on a “general” basis. Cf. Toufighi v.
    Mukasey, 
    538 F.3d 988
    , 994–95 (9th Cir. 2008) (although, as
    the applicant noted, “the IJ found him generally credible,”
    this court concluded “that the IJ did make an express adverse
    credibility determination” as to the specific issue of his
    “claim that he converted to Christianity”). In support of its
    position, the panel majority pointed to authority holding that
    a vague and tentative statement “‘that a petitioner is “not
    entirely credible” is not enough’ to constitute an adverse
    credibility finding,” Dai, 884 F.3d at 867 (quoting Aguilera-
    Cota v. INS, 
    914 F.2d 1375
    , 1383 (9th Cir. 1990)) (emphasis
    added), but here the BIA’s adverse credibility determination
    was explicit, direct, and specific. Accordingly, nothing in
    Aguilera-Cota supports the panel majority’s novel suggestion
    that a partial finding of untruthfulness is inadequate, and that
    only a “general adverse credibility finding” will do. (And if
    Aguilera-Cota had adopted that view, then we should
    overrule that case en banc as well.)
    Moreover, by failing to give effect to the BIA’s explicit
    determination that the record revealed Dai’s partial lack of
    truthfulness, the panel majority effectively created yet
    another flawed “Simon says” rule, in addition to our deemed-
    credible rule. Under the panel majority’s decision, the BIA’s
    failure to expressly state that it was invoking the REAL ID
    Act’s rebuttable presumption in this case means that this
    court should act as if the BIA had not done so. The panel
    majority erred by yet again devising counterfactual
    presumptions that distort our reading of the administrative
    record on appeal.
    52                      DAI V. SESSIONS
    *       *       *
    Given that we have eschewed a magic-words approach to
    explicit credibility determinations, the BIA’s express
    statement that Dai was not “truthful” was a permissible
    application of the REAL ID Act’s rebuttable presumption of
    credibility, and that statement is sufficiently explicit to
    preclude application of the deemed-credible rule on its own
    terms. But more importantly, the REAL ID Act expressly
    abrogates the deemed-credible rule entirely and replaces it
    with, at most, a rebuttable presumption of credibility. And
    here, any presumption that the IJ actually believed Dai’s
    statements about his family’s voluntary return has been
    amply rebutted. Our persistence in applying an irrebuttable
    presumption that is at odds with the statute and at odds with
    a common-sense reading of this record is deeply troubling
    and warrants en banc review.
    I respectfully dissent from the denial of rehearing en banc.