Fisher v. City of San Jose ( 2007 )


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  •                    FOR PUBLICATION
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
    STEVEN FISHER,                           
    Plaintiff-Appellee,
    and
    SANDRA FISHER,
    Plaintiff,
    v.
    CITY OF SAN JOSE,                              No. 04-16095
    Defendant-Appellant,
    and
           D.C. No.
    CV-01-21192-PVT
    CITY OF SAN JOSE POLICE                         OPINION
    DEPARTMENT; OFFICER BOLER;
    OFFICER BARNETT; OFFICER CORREA;
    OFFICER ESQUIVEL; OFFICER HONDA;
    OFFICER KINSWORTHY; OFFICER
    O’BRIEN; OFFICER RYAN; OFFICER
    NGUYEN,
    Defendants.
    
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Northern District of California
    Patricia V. Trumbull, Magistrate Judge, Presiding
    Argued and Submitted
    April 5, 2006—San Francisco, California
    Filed January 16, 2007
    Before: David R. Thompson, Marsha S. Berzon, and
    Consuelo M. Callahan, Circuit Judges.
    Opinion by Judge Berzon;
    Dissent by Judge Callahan
    465
    470                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    COUNSEL
    Clifford S. Greenberg, Senior Deputy City Attorney, San
    Jose, California, for defendant-appellant City of San Jose.
    Donald E.J. Kilmer, Jr., San Jose, California, for plaintiff-
    appellee Steven Fisher.
    OPINION
    BERZON, Circuit Judge:
    Steven Fisher claims constitutional violations stemming
    from a twelve-hour standoff at his apartment between him and
    a large number of San Jose police officers, at the end of which
    he came out of the apartment and submitted to arrest. He sued
    the city of San Jose (the City) and several officers under 42
    U.S.C. § 1983, contending, among other things, that the arrest
    was invalid because the police never obtained or attempted to
    obtain a warrant. A jury found for the defendants on all
    claims, including a claim for warrantless arrest. Fisher there-
    upon filed a renewed motion under Federal Rule of Civil Pro-
    cedure 50(b) for judgment as a matter of law on the
    warrantless arrest claim. Granting the motion against the City
    alone, the district court ordered the City to pay nominal dam-
    ages of one dollar and issued an injunction regarding future
    training of police officers. We uphold the district court’s rul-
    ing on appeal, as we agree that the failure to obtain a warrant
    under the unusual circumstances of this case constituted a
    constitutional violation as a matter of law.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                 471
    I.   Background
    A.   The Standoff
    On the afternoon of Saturday, October 23, 1999, Fisher
    bought two twelve-packs of beer and settled in at home for an
    evening of watching the World Series and cleaning rifles from
    his collection of approximately eighteen World War II-era
    firearms. Both the guns and the beer figured prominently in
    the ensuing events.
    Those events began when, around midnight, Leo Serrano,
    a security guard at Fisher’s apartment complex, was walking
    near Fisher’s apartment investigating noise complaints regard-
    ing Fisher’s upstairs neighbor. Fisher’s apartment is on the
    bottom floor of the apartment complex and has a sliding glass
    door leading out to an enclosed patio; passers-by can see into
    the apartment through the glass door. Noticing Fisher in his
    apartment, Serrano motioned for him to come outside and
    speak with him. Fisher walked out, carrying the rifle he had
    been cleaning when Serrano called to him.
    When Serrano asked Fisher about the noise coming from
    his upstairs neighbor, Fisher was generally unresponsive,
    eventually changing the subject to the Second Amendment.
    Throughout the short conversation, Fisher held his rifle in var-
    ious positions. Whether Fisher pointed the rifle at Serrano is
    not clear: At trial, Serrano testified that Fisher did not, but an
    officer who had been called to the scene after Serrano testified
    at trial that when he arrived at Fisher’s apartment complex,
    Serrano told him that Fisher had pointed the rifle toward him
    during the initial encounter. Either way, Serrano suspected
    that Fisher was intoxicated and, feeling uncomfortable and
    frightened in Fisher’s presence because of the liquor, the gun,
    and the odd reaction to Serrano’s questions, left to tell his
    supervisor about his interaction with Fisher. The supervisor
    notified the police, who responded by sending officers to the
    scene.
    472                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    Sergeant Ryan was among the first to arrive, at around 2
    a.m. After speaking with Serrano, Ryan approached Fisher’s
    patio and attempted to get Fisher’s attention by throwing
    small rocks at the sliding glass doors. Fisher came to the door
    but, rather than answering Ryan’s questions, spoke in a ram-
    bling fashion of his Second Amendment rights. Ryan, too,
    believed that Fisher was intoxicated.
    After Ryan tried to speak with Fisher, more police officers
    began arriving at the scene; eventually, over sixty officers
    participated in the standoff. Early on, some officers tele-
    phoned Fisher’s apartment. When Fisher’s wife, Sandra,
    answered the phone, the officers instructed her to leave the
    apartment, which she did. It is not clear whether she put the
    phone back on the hook, but it was busy throughout the
    remainder of the standoff. When she emerged, Sandra
    informed the police that no one else was inside the apartment.
    She also confirmed that Fisher had eighteen rifles in the apart-
    ment and had been drinking.
    At approximately 3 or 4 a.m., Jan Males, a tactical negotia-
    tor, arrived and tried to communicate with Fisher. Unprom-
    pted, Fisher informed Males that he had a right to bear arms.
    He invited her into his apartment but said he would shoot her
    if she did come in. Males considered this statement to be a
    criminal threat, a felony.
    Aside from that interaction, throughout the early morning
    Fisher repeatedly told the police to “go away, leave me alone,
    and don’t bother me.” Twice during that period, Officer
    Boler, who was observing the apartment from across the
    street, reported that Fisher was pointing one of his rifles at
    Ryan and Males, who were the officers closest to Fisher’s
    apartment and were sheltering themselves behind a tree. Boler
    also reported that Fisher was moving the rifles around his
    apartment. Despite these observations and the threat to Males,
    no officer told Fisher during those early morning hours that
    he was under arrest.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                    473
    Fisher was last seen with a rifle at approximately 6:30 a.m.
    A little while later, at around 7 a.m., the Mobile Emergency
    Response Group and Equipment (MERGE) team came to the
    scene, replacing the patrol officers who had first arrived.1 At
    that point, believing that Fisher had committed a crime —
    pointing a rifle at police officers — the MERGE team focused
    its efforts on forcing him out of his apartment to arrest him.
    The officers had Fisher’s power turned off at 8:48 a.m. and
    then broke the sliding glass doors so a “throw phone”2 could
    be tossed through, as Fisher’s phone remained busy. At 10:52
    a.m., the police set off a “flash-bang” device, designed to get
    Fisher’s attention and disorient him briefly. Two hours later
    the police began throwing CS gas canisters into Fisher’s
    apartment; CS gas causes irritation and burning sensations.
    One of the CS gas volleys sent glass flying, cutting Fisher’s
    forehead above one eye.
    At 2 p.m., the police again attempted to contact Fisher, this
    time by bullhorn. They finally achieved telephone contact, via
    the throw phone, at 2:13 p.m. Fisher stated at that point that
    he was willing to leave his apartment and offered to leave
    naked so that the police would not suspect him of carrying a
    weapon. When the police told him that this was not necessary,
    he said that he would come out in his boxers and socks. The
    police approved this plan.
    Fisher emerged from his apartment at 2:35 p.m. He initially
    followed police instructions, walking in the designated direc-
    tion and keeping his hands in the air. Soon, however, he
    stopped walking forward. One of the officers thereupon shot
    him in the leg with a “sage gun,” which shoots less-than-
    lethal rubber bullets. Fisher then lay down on the ground, and
    the officers handcuffed him and took him into custody.
    1
    The MERGE team was called at 4:45 a.m.
    2
    A throw phone is a phone encased in a box that also contains an open
    microphone.
    474                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    Several of the police officers involved in the first shift
    returned to the police station after they left in the morning and
    wrote police reports; some of those officers testified that they
    had intended to arrest Fisher. All the police officers who were
    asked at Fisher’s § 1983 trial whether they attempted to pro-
    cure a warrant said no, including some of those who returned
    to the station in the morning. Also, all of the officers who
    were asked testified that they did not believe a warrant was
    necessary. Finally, all of the officers who were asked testified
    that they knew that judges are available twenty-four hours a
    day to issue warrants.
    Fisher was tried for felony violations of California Penal
    Code sections 417 and 417.8, which prohibit, in general,
    drawing, exhibiting, or using a firearm or deadly weapon
    against a peace officer or with the intent to resist or prevent
    an arrest. The jury deadlocked, and Fisher then pleaded no
    contest to a misdemeanor charge of brandishing a firearm in
    the presence of a security officer.
    B.   The Lawsuit
    Fisher and his wife sued the city of San Jose, the San Jose
    Police Department, and several San Jose police officers. They
    alleged, among other causes of action (1) that Fisher’s war-
    rantless arrest was an unreasonable seizure; and (2) that the
    use of the sage gun and of the CS gas constituted state law
    batteries. The basis for the claim against the City was that it
    was “either jointly and severally liable; and/or vicariously lia-
    ble through the doctrine of respondeat superior for the actions
    of its employee police officers also named herein in their indi-
    vidual capacity.” After an eight-day jury trial, Fisher filed a
    motion for judgment as a matter of law under Federal Rule of
    Civil Procedure 50(a), but the court denied the motion.
    The court instructed the jury that “[i]t already has been con-
    clusively established that if you find that the Defendants
    unlawfully arrested Steven Fisher, such arrest was done pur-
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                 475
    suant to the official policy of the City of San Jose and, thus,
    that the City is liable for such arrest.” The jury was further
    instructed that the arrest was lawful if “the officers ha[d]
    probable cause to believe a crime has been committed and
    exigent circumstances exist,” and also that “[e]xigent circum-
    stances are those in which a substantial risk of harm to the
    persons involved or to the law enforcement process would
    arise if the police were to delay an arrest until a warrant could
    be obtained.” The court additionally instructed that a “seizure
    or arrest occurs when a police officer or officers, by means of
    physical force or show of authority, restrains [sic] the liberty
    of a citizen in such a way that a reasonable citizen reasonably
    would believe under the circumstances that he or she was not
    free to leave.” Finally, the court instructed that “[w]hen a per-
    son emerges from his home only because of police coercion,
    it is constructive entry and is considered an arrest within the
    home.” The jury was not fully instructed, however, about how
    to determine when any entry takes place, so as to gauge
    whether exigent circumstances existed at all of the pertinent
    times. Moreover, as we explain later, the jury was improperly
    instructed on the standard for identifying an arrest.
    So instructed, the jury found for the defendants on all
    claims. Fisher then filed a renewed motion for judgment as a
    matter of law under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 50(b).
    The court denied the motion on all other grounds but granted
    it as to the warrantless arrest claim against the City.
    In so ruling, the district court laid out its reasoning in some
    detail. Observing that “[t]he very circumstances under which
    Steven Fisher w[as] arrested negate any implication that there
    was any great exigency in arresting him without securing a
    warrant,” the court ruled that, because “between 6:30 a.m. and
    the time Fisher was taken into custody at 2:35 p.m., no exi-
    gency existed[,] . . . Defendants . . . had ample opportunity
    and time to seek a warrant from a neutral and detached ‘mag-
    istrate,’ as they were required to do under law.” The court
    expressed skepticism as to why, when “well over sixty offi-
    476                 FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    cers [were] present at the Fisher’s apartment complex,” not
    one of them was able to seek and obtain a telephone warrant
    before Fisher submitted to arrest.
    The court awarded one dollar in nominal damages to Fisher
    and injunctive relief ordering the City to train its officers “on
    what is required under the Fourth Amendment and the case
    law interpreting it lawfully to arrest a suspect in his or her
    home and on the procedures for obtaining warrants both in-
    person and on the telephone.” The City now appeals, chal-
    lenging only the court’s constitutional determination regard-
    ing the failure to obtain a warrant.
    II.   Standard of Review
    This appeal arises from the grant of a Rule 50(b) renewed
    motion for judgment as a matter of law. That Rule provides:
    If, for any reason, the court does not grant a motion
    for judgment as a matter of law made at the close of
    all the evidence [under Rule 50(a)], the court is con-
    sidered to have submitted the action to the jury sub-
    ject to the court’s later deciding the legal questions
    raised by the motion.
    Fed. R. Civ. P. 50(b). It is thus Rule 50(a) that sets out the
    standard for granting Rule 50(b) motions — whether there is
    “legally sufficient evidentiary basis for a reasonable jury to
    find for that party on [an] issue,” and, if not, whether “a claim
    or defense . . . cannot under the controlling law be maintained
    or defeated without a favorable finding on that issue.” Fed. R.
    Civ. P. 50(a). “Sufficient evidence” is “evidence adequate to
    support the jury’s conclusion, even if it is also possible to
    draw a contrary conclusion.” Pavao v. Pagay, 
    307 F.3d 915
    ,
    918 (9th Cir. 2002).
    This court reviews the district court’s grant of a renewed
    motion for judgment as a matter of law de novo. 
    Id. The dis-
                         FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                     477
    trict court’s “judgment is proper if the evidence, construed in
    the light most favorable to the nonmoving party, permits only
    one reasonable conclusion, and that conclusion is contrary to
    the jury’s verdict.” 
    Id. Although the
    jury instructions did not fully and properly
    cover the question of when the pertinent entry and arrest
    occurred, Fisher did not object to the jury instructions. The
    City argues that he therefore cannot complain of the jury’s
    verdict as if the instructions had been proper, but only on the
    ground that on the instructions given, no substantial evidence
    supported the verdict. That proposition is not illogical, but it
    is incorrect.
    True, an “appellant may not challenge on review the cor-
    rectness of instructions to which he took no exceptions or
    only general exception.” Air-Sea Forwarders, Inc. v. Air Asia
    Co., 
    880 F.2d 176
    , 182 n.5 (9th Cir. 1989) (quoting Coca
    Cola Bottling Co. of Black Hills v. Hubbard, 
    203 F.2d 859
    ,
    862 (8th Cir. 1953) and noting the Supreme Court’s implicit
    adoption of this principle in Aspen Skiing Co. v. Aspen High-
    lands Skiing Corp., 
    472 U.S. 585
    (1985)). But that principle
    does not foreclose appellate review of an underlying legal
    question in the case through a Rule 50(b) motion. “[T]he fail-
    ure to object to an instruction does not render the instruction
    the ‘law of the case’ for purposes of appellate review of the
    denial of a directed verdict or judgment notwithstanding the
    verdict.” City of St. Louis v. Praprotnik, 
    485 U.S. 112
    , 120
    (1988) (plurality opinion) (quoting City of Springfield v.
    Kibbe, 
    480 U.S. 257
    , 264 (1987) (O’Connor, J., dissenting)
    (internal quotation marks omitted).3 If a party moves under
    Rule 50 for judgment as a matter of law both before and after
    the verdict, as Fisher did, the motions are “sufficient to pre-
    serve the . . . issue for appeal, ‘[a]lthough the same legal issue
    3
    Although Praprotnik was a plurality opinion, we have viewed the
    quoted principle as precedential, in light of a later Supreme Court case.
    See Air-Sea 
    Forwarders, 880 F.2d at 183
    & n.7.
    478                    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    was raised by both those motions and [by] the jury instruc-
    tion.” Air-Sea 
    Forwarders, 880 F.2d at 183
    (quoting Praprot-
    
    nik, 485 U.S. at 120
    (plurality opinion)) (first alteration in
    original). We may therefore review the question raised by
    Fisher — whether exigent circumstances existed such that a
    warrant could not have been obtained before the entry that
    effectuated the arrest or the arrest itself — even though the
    jury instructions did not fully and properly cover the key
    question — essential to deciding the exigency issue — of
    when an arrest or entry effectuating an arrest occurs.
    III.   Warrantless Arrest or Seizure
    A.        Arrest or Seizure Inside the Home and Exigent
    Circumstances
    1.    The Warrant Requirement
    [1] In general, police may not enter a person’s home to
    arrest him without obtaining a warrant. See Payton v. New
    York, 
    445 U.S. 573
    , 589-90 (1980); United States v. Prescott,
    
    581 F.2d 1343
    , 1350 (9th Cir. 1978).4 Indeed, “[a]t the very
    core [of the Fourth Amendment] stands the right of a man to
    retreat into his own home and there be free from unreasonable
    governmental intrusion.” Silverman v. United States, 
    365 U.S. 505
    , 511 (1961). It is because “the home is perhaps the most
    sacrosanct domain and . . . there, Fourth Amendment interests
    are at their strongest,” LaLonde v. County of Riverside, 204
    4
    Although the words of the Fourth Amendment are familiar, it is worth
    recalling them before embarking on an exegesis of the warrant require-
    ment in the unusual circumstances here presented. The Fourth Amendment
    reads:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
    papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,
    shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon prob-
    able cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly
    describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to
    be seized.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                
    479 F.3d 947
    , 954 (9th Cir. 2000), that “the Fourth Amendment
    has drawn a firm line at the entrance to the house. Absent exi-
    gent circumstances, that threshold may not reasonably be
    crossed without a warrant.” 
    Payton, 445 U.S. at 590
    . Police
    may, however, arrest a suspect in a public place without a
    warrant, assuming they have probable cause to believe that
    the suspect has committed a crime. United States v. Watson,
    
    423 U.S. 411
    , 423-24 (1976).
    [2] In determining whether an arrest occurs in-house or in
    a public place, “it is the location of the arrested person, and
    not the arresting agents, that determines whether an arrest
    occurs within a home.” United States v. Johnson, 
    626 F.2d 753
    , 757 (9th Cir. 1980), aff’d, 
    457 U.S. 537
    (1982). Apply-
    ing that concept, if the police force a person out of his house
    to arrest him, the arrest is deemed to have taken place inside
    his home. United States v. Al-Azzawy, 
    784 F.2d 890
    , 892-93
    (9th Cir. 1985); United States v. 
    Johnson, 626 F.2d at 757
    . In
    Al-Azzawy, for example, the defendant “was in his trailer at
    the time he was surrounded by armed officers, and since he
    did not voluntarily expose himself to their view or control
    outside his trailer but only emerged under circumstances of
    extreme coercion, the arrest occurred while he was still inside
    his 
    trailer.” 784 F.2d at 893
    .
    [3] Although it is possible to seize someone within the
    meaning of the Fourth Amendment in a manner that does not
    constitute a full-blown arrest, the same principles apply to any
    in-house seizure of a person, even one that does not amount
    to a full-blown arrest. Here is why: Although Fourth Amend-
    ment seizures that do not amount to arrests may be accom-
    plished on less than probable cause, Terry v. Ohio, 
    392 U.S. 1
    , 20 (1968), we have held, in light of the special status of in-
    house seizures recognized in Payton, that “probable cause is
    a precondition for any warrantless entry to seize a person in
    his home.” 
    LaLonde, 204 F.3d at 954
    . Thus, whatever the
    nature of the seizure, the “less onerous requirements of Terry”
    — permitting seizure based on reasonable suspicion rather
    480                 FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    than probable cause — cannot be applied to a warrantless
    entry to seize a person in his home. 
    Id. For similar
    reasons,
    any in-house seizure must be subject to the warrant require-
    ment as well, absent an applicable exception. We agree in this
    regard with United States v. Saari, in the Sixth Circuit, which
    reasoned as follows:
    [L]ike a full-blown arrest, an investigatory detention
    is a seizure that is subject to Fourth Amendment
    scrutiny. Thus, Payton’s holding that warrantless sei-
    zures of persons in their homes violate the Fourth
    Amendment, absent exigent circumstances, applies
    . . . regardless of whether the officers at issue were
    conducting an arrest or an investigatory detention.
    
    272 F.3d 804
    , 809 (6th Cir. 2001) (citations omitted).
    [4] It therefore does not matter for present purposes
    whether any seizure of Fisher that occurred before he was
    taken into custody at the conclusion of the standoff would
    have amounted to an arrest or to a Terry seizure had the sei-
    zure occurred outside the home. Either way, a warrant was
    presumptively required prior to entry.
    2.   Exceptions to the Warrant Requirement
    [5] The warrant requirement, however, is not without
    exceptions. The exception defendants rely upon here, and the
    one explicitly noted in Payton, permits arrests without a war-
    rant inside a home when police officers have probable cause
    to believe that a crime has been committed5 and exigent cir-
    cumstances exist such that a warrant “could not have been
    obtained in time.” See United States v. Manfredi, 
    722 F.2d 519
    , 522 (9th Cir. 1983). The standard has also been framed
    as permitting a warrantless arrest when “a substantial risk of
    5
    Fisher concedes that probable cause to believe he committed a crime
    existed during the standoff.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                      481
    harm to the persons involved or to the law enforcement pro-
    cess would arise if the police were to delay a search until a
    warrant could be obtained.” United States v. Robertson, 
    606 F.2d 853
    , 859 (9th Cir. 1979); see also Michigan v. Tyler, 
    436 U.S. 499
    , 509 (1978) (“[A] warrantless entry by criminal law
    enforcement officials may be legal when there is compelling
    need for official action and no time to secure a warrant.”). We
    read these enunciations of the standard to mean that a situa-
    tion is exigent for purposes of permitting an arrest without a
    warrant if a warrant could not be obtained in time to effectu-
    ate the arrest safely — that is, for present purposes, without
    causing a delay dangerous to the officers or to members of the
    public.6
    [6] Inherent in this standard are considerations regarding
    the time required, as a practical matter, to obtain a warrant.
    Where exigency is claimed, we have required “the govern-
    ment either to attempt, in good faith, to secure a warrant, or
    to present evidence explaining why a telephone warrant was
    unavailable or impractical.” United States v. Alvarez, 
    810 F.2d 879
    , 883 (9th Cir. 1987) (footnote omitted). Here, none
    of the officers testified that there was any attempt to get a
    warrant at any point during the twelve-hour standoff, by tele-
    phone or otherwise. The City can therefore prevail only if it
    satisfactorily explains why a warrant was unavailable or
    impractical in the time available.
    3.   Duration of the Warrant Requirement
    The City’s explanation on the key question of exigent cir-
    cumstances proceeds from the premise that Fisher was under
    6
    “ ‘[E]xigent circumstances,’ include the need to protect an officer or
    the public from danger, the need to avoid the imminent destruction of evi-
    dence, when entry in ‘hot pursuit’ is necessary to prevent a criminal sus-
    pect’s escape, and to respond to fires or other emergencies.” United States
    v. Brooks, 
    367 F.3d 1128
    , 1133 n.5 (9th Cir. 2004) (citations omitted),
    cert. denied, 
    543 U.S. 1058
    (2005).
    482                    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    arrest by 6:30 a.m. at the latest, so the showing with regard
    to practicality of obtaining a warrant need only cover the
    period before then. The City cites Al-Azzawy, which held that
    because “the police had completely surrounded appellee’s
    trailer with their weapons drawn and ordered him through a
    bullhorn to leave the trailer and drop to his knees . . . the
    arrest occurred while he was still inside his 
    trailer.” 784 F.2d at 893
    . Al-Azzawy also cited, with approval, a statement from
    a Sixth Circuit case that the defendant “was placed under
    arrest, without the issuance of a warrant, at the moment the
    police encircled [his] residence.” 
    Id. at 892
    (quoting United
    States v. Morgan, 
    743 F.2d 1158
    , 1164 (6th Cir. 1984)). The
    City’s thesis is that because under Al-Azzawy Fisher was
    arrested in his home and because the police had staked out
    Fisher’s apartment and begun encouraging him to leave his
    apartment by 6:30 a.m, he was arrested by then, and the time
    after 6:30 a.m. is irrelevant to the question of whether it was
    possible to get a warrant.7
    7
    Even if we were to assume the City’s timeline as well as its under-
    standing that only one, early arrest occurred, it is far from clear that suffi-
    cient evidence of exigency existed to justify the failure to obtain a warrant.
    Warrants need not always be obtained in person. Federal Rule of Criminal
    Procedure 41(d)(3), for example, allows a magistrate to issue a warrant by
    telephone if the police comply with certain procedures. The officers testi-
    fied to knowledge of these types of procedures. Also, all officers who
    were questioned testified that judges are available twenty-four hours a day
    to issue warrants. The incident with the security officer occurred around
    midnight, Fisher allegedly pointed guns at the police officers from his
    apartment beginning around 2:45 a.m., and the asserted criminal threat to
    Males took place before 4 a.m. Although it was these events that, accord-
    ing to the parties, gave rise to probable cause for the arrest, the govern-
    ment has provided no explanation beyond a general claim of exigency as
    to why none of the police present tried to get a warrant for Fisher’s arrest
    during that early morning period, directly or by contacting police head-
    quarters and asking someone else to do it. See United States v. Licata, 
    761 F.2d 537
    , 543 (9th Cir. 1985) (“The exigencies must be viewed from the
    totality of circumstances known to the officers at the time of the warrant-
    less intrusion.”); see also United States v. Lindsey, 
    877 F.2d 777
    , 782 (9th
    Cir. 1989) (holding that exigent circumstances exception was satisfied
    where the police on the scene did not begin the warrant process during the
    one hour they were waiting for assistance from reinforcement dealing with
    a potentially dangerous situation because “the officers did not know in
    advance that the reinforcements would be delayed”).
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                     483
    The pivotal problem with this reasoning is the City’s
    unstated premise — that there could be only one arrest giving
    rise to the need for a warrant. After examining Al-Azzawy,
    post-Al-Azzawy Supreme Court case law, as well as the Pay-
    ton line of cases, we conclude that this assumption is incor-
    rect. The City’s articulated thesis — that the warrant
    requirement necessarily lapsed even though the standoff con-
    tinued — is therefore incorrect as well.
    We conclude, instead, that the Fourth Amendment’s war-
    rant requirement for entering a home to seize or arrest some-
    one does not disappear once there has been a single entry,
    seizure, or arrest, but continues in effect if there are further
    entries for the purpose of seizure or arrest — subject to an
    exception if there is an exigency excusing the warrant at the
    time of the later entries.
    [7] Our analysis proceeds, first, from post-Al-Azzawy
    Supreme Court case law that indicates that there can be more
    than one seizure or arrest arising from a particular set of cir-
    cumstances. See California v. Hodari D., 
    499 U.S. 621
    (1991). Hodari D. concerned a young man who fled at the
    sight of police and, while he was being pursued, threw aside
    a block of crack cocaine; the police thereafter retrieved the
    cocaine and charged Hodari D. in a juvenile proceeding. Until
    Hodari D. threw the cocaine, he argued, the officers did not
    have even reasonable suspicion to stop and question him. The
    question therefore was when Hodari D. was seized — before
    or after he tossed the cocaine.
    [8] Hodari D. determined that, in general, while a seizure
    can be accomplished by “mere grasping or application of
    physical force with lawful authority, whether or not it suc-
    ceeded in subduing the arrestee,” there is no “continuing
    arrest during the period of fugitivity.” 
    Id. at 624-25.8
    Thus,
    8
    In Hodari D., the encounter was in a public place, not in a dwelling,
    so no warrant requirement was applicable even if an arrest occurred. See
    484                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    Hodari D. explained, if an officer places his hands upon a
    suspect intending to arrest him but the suspect flees, any
    arrest effectuated by the touching does not continue after the
    separation of the two. 
    Id. at 625.
    The necessary corollary of
    this analysis is that a suspect once seized by the application
    of physical force but not subdued can be seized again, until
    he does yield to the officers. A further implication, which we
    adopt as a holding, is that the warrant requirement, if other-
    wise applicable, applies to later arrests or seizures even if
    there was an earlier, unsuccessful arrest or seizure as to which
    no warrant requirement was applicable. So, for example, if
    Hodari D. had succeeded in evading the police after they
    apprehended him on the street and the officers later came to
    his house to rearrest him, they would need a warrant to enter
    his house unless there was probable cause and an exigency at
    that time excusing the warrant requirement.
    [9] The second strand in our Fourth Amendment analysis,
    derived from Payton, is the principle that “the critical time for
    determining whether any exigency exists is the moment the
    officer makes the warrantless entry.” United States v. John-
    son, 
    256 F.3d 895
    , 907 (9th Cir. 2001) (en banc) (emphasis
    added). As explained in the Second Circuit’s opinion upon
    which Payton relied as “persuasive”:
    To be arrested in the home involves not only the
    invasion attendant to all arrests but also an invasion
    
    Watson, 423 U.S. at 423-24
    . Also, the technical issue in Hodari D. was
    whether there was a seizure, not an arrest. 
    See 499 U.S. at 623
    .
    Despite these distinctions, Hodari D. is applicable here, for two reasons.
    First, Hodari D. relied heavily on the law of arrest, both common law and
    constitutional, emphasizing that “an arrest [is] the quintessential ‘seizure
    of the person’ under our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence.” 
    Id. at 624.
    Here, we assume, as Hodari D. did, that common law of arrest concepts
    apply to seizure of persons that may not meet modern definitions of arrest,
    as well as to full-blown arrests. Second, as we have explained, a warrant
    is required for in-home seizures short of arrests, as well as for in-home
    full-blown arrests, as long as no exception to the warrant requirement
    applies.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                 485
    of the sanctity of the home. This is simply too sub-
    stantial an invasion to allow without a warrant, at
    least in the absence of exigent circumstances, even
    when it is accomplished under statutory authority
    and when probable cause is clearly present.
    United States v. Reed, 
    572 F.2d 412
    , 423 (2d Cir. 1978)
    (quoted with approval in 
    Payton, 445 U.S. at 588-89
    ). Under
    this standard, it is the entry, not the arrest, that most directly
    triggers the constitutional concern. Indeed, as the facts of
    Payton itself illustrate, a warrantless entry made for purposes
    of arrest or seizure is constitutionally invalid even if no arrest
    ensues because the suspect is not there. 
    See 445 U.S. at 576
    -
    77.
    In sum: (1) there can be more than one arrest or seizure and
    therefore more than one entry for the purpose of effecting an
    arrest or seizure; and (2) the pertinent time for determining
    whether an exigency exists that excuses the need for a warrant
    to make an in-house arrest or seizure is the time entry is made
    to effectuate that arrest or seizure. Given these two principles,
    it does not matter whether the City is correct that the warrant
    requirement became operative during the early morning hours
    but was excused at the point because there was exigency.
    Assuming that much is true — which we do not decide — the
    warrant requirement did not terminate at that point, because
    (1) there were, after 6:30 a.m., discrete entries for the purpose
    of effectuating Fisher’s seizures and arrest that triggered the
    warrant requirement under Payton; and (2) there was no exi-
    gency at the time of one or more of those discrete entries.
    B.   Seizures and Arrest of Fisher
    Fisher clearly succumbed to police coercion while still at
    home when he agreed to come out of his house and submit to
    formal arrest. As Fisher’s final arrest thus occurred inside his
    home — a determination the City does not contest — a war-
    486                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    rant was presumptively required to seize him prior to this
    arrest.
    What is contested is the timing of that arrest, or of any
    other seizures. The City argues that Fisher’s only arrest
    occurred by 6:30 a.m., after the police officers on the scene
    had surrounded Fisher’s home, attempted to convince him to
    come outside to talk, and positioned a sharp shooter to
    observe his actions. This argument implicitly maintains that
    any pertinent entry occurred before then. Applying the princi-
    ples already discussed to the evidence presented, we conclude
    that the City’s position is not supported by legally sufficient
    evidence.
    There are, in fact, at least three possible junctures at which
    an arrest or seizure of Fisher could have occurred: (1) before
    6:30 a.m., when the police had surrounded his house and were
    asking him to emerge; (2) when the officers caused force to
    be applied to him by tossing in CS canisters; or (3) when, at
    the end of the standoff, Fisher submitted to the officers’ show
    of authority. As we proceed to explain, assuming an arrest
    occurred at the first juncture, as the City posits, we conclude
    that seizures occurred at the second and third junctures as
    well. Our conclusion that seizures or arrests occurred at those
    two junctures derives from standards for determining when
    seizures occur that have their roots in Hodari D.
    1.   Pre-6:30 a.m. seizure or arrest
    The City suggests that Fisher was arrested when he was no
    longer “free to leave” — which, according to the City, was
    when his apartment was surrounded by police officers, that is,
    some time before 6:30 a.m. Although the trial court’s instruc-
    tions to the jury in this case so stated and many cases do rely
    on the “free to leave” standard as necessary to determine
    when a seizure, essential to an arrest, has occurred, see, e.g.,
    Gilmore v. Gonzales, 
    435 F.3d 1125
    , 1137-38 (9th Cir. 2006),
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                       487
    that phraseology is not the most useful one under the present
    circumstances.
    The problem with the “free to leave” standard as applied to
    barricaded suspects is that it does not effectively measure the
    degree of intrusion on their liberty worked by the police
    actions. Here, for example, Fisher was quite clear that he did
    not wish to leave.
    [10] The Supreme Court has enunciated in the context of
    investigatory stops on buses a slightly modified version of the
    “free to leave” test more useful here: A person’s liberty is
    restrained to the point of seizure for Fourth Amendment pur-
    poses when, “taking into account all of the circumstances sur-
    rounding the encounter, the police conduct would ‘have
    communicated to a reasonable person that he was not at lib-
    erty to ignore the police presence and go about his busi-
    ness.’ ” Florida v. Bostick, 
    501 U.S. 429
    , 437 (1991) (quoting
    Michigan v. Chesternut, 
    486 U.S. 567
    , 569 (1988) and citing
    Hodari 
    D., 499 U.S. at 628
    ); see also United States v. Jacob-
    sen, 
    466 U.S. 109
    , 113 n.5 (1984) (stating that “the ‘seizure’
    of a person within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment [is]
    meaningful interference, however brief, with an individual’s
    freedom of movement”); United States v. Washington, 
    387 F.3d 1060
    , 1068 (9th Cir. 2004) (quoting 
    Bostick, 501 U.S. at 437
    ). As this line of cases recognizes, in most encounters
    between police and the citizenry, we presume a person’s
    desire in terminating the encounter to be leaving the scene. In
    some cases, however, the desire is to stay in place and go
    about one’s business, and in those instances the determination
    of when a seizure or arrest has occurred focuses on interfer-
    ence with those autonomy interests.
    [11] The circumstances here are of the latter variety: Fisher
    expressed his desire to go about his business at home.9 He
    9
    In discussing Fisher’s circumstances, we do not hold, as the dissent
    suggests, Dissent at 508, that the Bostick test is a subjective one. Rather,
    we observe only that Fisher was similarly situated to the bus passenger in
    Bostick, whose “freedom of movement was restricted by [his desire to stay
    on the bus — ]a factor independent of police 
    conduct.” 501 U.S. at 436
    .
    488                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    repeatedly asked the police to leave him alone, withdrawing
    from public sight for several hours and attempting to watch
    television. Any approach focusing on serious interference
    with Fisher’s liberty interest under circumstances such as
    these must therefore be framed not as freedom to leave but
    freedom to “ignore the police presence and go about his busi-
    ness.” 
    Bostick, 501 U.S. at 437
    (quoting 
    Chesternut, 486 U.S. at 569
    ) (internal quotation mark omitted).
    [12] The officers made it clear that they did not wish Fisher
    to continue to stay alone in his apartment and do what he
    pleased, and demanded that he cease his chosen activities and
    come outside to talk to them. This demand was not merely
    verbal but included throwing rocks at his window, speaking
    to him through a bullhorn, turning off his power, tossing a
    throw phone through into his home, setting off a “flash-bang”
    device, and throwing CS gas canisters into his apartment.
    Given this barrage of police threats outside the home and
    intrusions of objects and materials into the apartment, a rea-
    sonable person certainly would have felt constricted in contin-
    uing his daily activities at home.
    Nevertheless, the “free to leave” or “free to go about
    [one’s] business” standard is not alone determinative in ascer-
    taining when an arrest or seizure has occurred, the critical
    inquiry in this case.10 Hodari D. held that a common law
    arrest or seizure of a person could be accomplished in two
    ways: “either physical force . . . or, where that is absent, sub-
    mission to the assertion of 
    authority.” 499 U.S. at 626
    . The
    10
    We emphasize that nothing in Hodari D. or in this discussion bears
    directly on when a suspect is in “custody,” for non-Fourth Amendment
    purposes. For purposes of applying Miranda v. Arizona, 
    384 U.S. 436
    (1966), for example, we use a five-part test for evaluating whether some-
    one is in custody. See United States v. Hayden, 
    260 F.3d 1062
    , 1066 (9th
    Cir. 2001) (examining “(1) the language used to summon the individual;
    (2) the extent to which the defendant is confronted with evidence of guilt;
    (3) the physical surroundings of the interrogation; (4) the duration of the
    detention; and (5) the degree of pressure applied to detain the individual”).
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                     489
    Supreme Court has clarified that, contrary to the jury instruc-
    tions in this case and to the views expressed by our dissenting
    colleague, the “free to leave” — or, in this instance, “free to
    go about [one’s] business” — test is “a necessary, but not
    sufficient, condition for seizure — or, more precisely, for sei-
    zure effected through a ‘show of authority.’ ” 
    Id. at 628.
    Even
    if police officers’ words to a fleeing suspect constituted a
    “show of authority,” Hodari D. held, a suspect is not seized
    as long as he is not complying with the officers’ “injunction.”
    
    Id. at 629.
    Fisher did not so comply until well after 6:30 a.m.11
    2.        Seizures or arrests after 6:30 a.m.
    Addressing both modes of seizure that Hodari D. recog-
    nized, we conclude that the evidence supports only one rea-
    sonable conclusion: that Fisher was seized, in both manners,
    during the afternoon hours, even if he was also seized by 6:30
    a.m. as the City posits.
    a.     Use of Force
    [13] Under Hodari D., the first method of effectuating a
    seizure is through the application of physical force. The force
    need not be significant and can count as effectuating an arrest
    even if inadequate to gain control of the suspect. “[M]ere
    grasping” or “la[ying] . . . hands upon” a suspect is, for exam-
    ple, sufficient even if inefficacious. 
    Id. at 624-25.
      11
    As we discuss later, Hodari D. also announced that seizure — includ-
    ing arrest — through application of physical force can occur even though
    the force is ineffective in restraining an individual’s 
    liberty. 499 U.S. at 624
    . Some cases have asserted that a show of force such as occurred here,
    when the officers surrounded Fisher’s apartment and placed a police car
    on the apartment complex lawn, is tantamount to an application of physi-
    cal force under Hodari D. See Ewolski v. City of Brunswick, 
    287 F.3d 492
    ,
    506 (6th Cir. 2002); Sharrar v. Felsing, 
    128 F.3d 810
    , 819 (3d Cir. 1997).
    We assume that is so. See note 13, infra. As a result, we do not contradict
    Ewolski or create the circuit split that the dissent envisions. Dissent at 510
    n.5.
    490                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    [14] Also, the force used need not involve a direct physical
    connection between the officer and the suspect. Rather, a
    Fourth Amendment seizure occurs “when there is a govern-
    mental termination of freedom of movement through means
    intentionally applied,” even if indirectly. Brower v. County of
    Inyo, 
    489 U.S. 593
    , 596-97 (1989). So, as in Brower, if the
    police intentionally set up a situation which will cause force
    to be applied to a suspect, such as establishing a roadblock or
    firing a gun, they have used force on the suspect. See 
    id. at 598-99
    (holding that a seizure occurs when a person is
    “stopped by the very instrumentality set in motion or put in
    place in order to achieve that result”); Tennessee v. Garner,
    
    471 U.S. 1
    , 7 (1985) (“[A]pprehension by the use of deadly
    force is a seizure. . . .”).
    Applying these standards, we conclude that whether or not
    the show of official force that occurred before 6:30 a.m. can
    be considered equivalent to the application of physical force
    for purposes of effectuating a seizure, there was no basis in
    the evidence for the jury to conclude that any such seizure
    was the only one that occurred. Rather, Fisher continued to go
    about his business in his apartment.12 His doing so was equiv-
    alent to the escape envisioned by Hodari D.: Like a fugitive
    who flees after application of physical force sufficient to con-
    stitute a seizure, as long as he remained in his apartment,
    Fisher was not under complete police control, despite
    attempts to bring him into such control. For that reason,
    Fisher remained subject to seizure or arrest — and related
    entries into his home — after the arrival of the MERGE team
    12
    Fisher’s location is critical to our conclusion. As Bostick recognized,
    “escape” or “freedom,” which may generally require an explicit showing
    of physical flight, takes on a different meaning in a confined location, such
    as one’s home, in which there are compelling reasons — unrelated to
    police action — for an individual to 
    remain. 501 U.S. at 435-36
    . Contrary
    to the dissent’s suggestion, however, we do not hold that merely disap-
    pearing from view constitutes an escape of the sort discussed in Hodari
    D. See Dissent at 511-12.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                       491
    even if he had been seized earlier, just as would an individual
    shot by the police who continued to flee thereafter.
    [15] After the MERGE team arrived, the officers threw sev-
    eral volleys of CS gas canisters into Fisher’s house. The gas
    was intended to reach Fisher’s orifices and interfere with his
    ability to function and did so. Intentionally exposing Fisher to
    toxic substances is an application of physical force for Fourth
    Amendment purposes. See Headwaters Forest Def. v. County
    of Humboldt, 
    240 F.3d 1185
    , 1198-1200 (9th Cir.), vacated
    and remanded, 
    534 U.S. 801
    (2001), aff’d on remand, 
    276 F.3d 1125
    (9th Cir. 2002); 
    LaLonde, 204 F.3d at 960-61
    .
    Thus, after the MERGE team arrived and Boler and Ryan left
    at 7 a.m., the officers applied physical force to Fisher on more
    than one occasion, which, under Hodari D., constituted seiz-
    ing him on each such occasion.
    b.   Show of Authority
    Alternatively, the police arrested Fisher at the end of the
    standoff, when he ultimately submitted to their show of
    authority by agreeing while still in his house to be placed
    under arrest.
    The City insists that Al-Azzawy controls this case, because
    it deemed an arrest to have occurred when the police encircled
    the suspect’s dwelling, thereby showing authority. 
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 892-94
    . Al-Azzawy and the cases it relies upon
    concern people who emerged from their dwelling shortly after
    a show of authority by police, so that the submission by
    emerging occurred essentially at the same time as the initial
    show of authority.13
    13
    In addition to its emphasis on the officers’ show of authority, Al-
    Azzawy also refers to “the officers’ show of 
    force.” 784 F.2d at 893
    . So
    Al-Azzawy can be read, alternatively, to assert that armed, intrusive police
    actions such as those used in that case and this one outside the suspect’s
    house constitute an application of physical force even though no physical
    substance actually touches the suspect, as in Brower. The Sixth Circuit in
    Ewolski similarly held that there was an “application of physical force”
    when “the police surrounded the house and paraded an armored vehicle in
    front of the [suspect’s] 
    house.” 287 F.3d at 506
    .
    492                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    This case presents a contrasting set of circumstances:
    Fisher did not succumb to the show of authority until over
    twelve hours had passed after the first attempt to contact him,
    and after several intrusive techniques had been used in addi-
    tion to the initial show of authority. Fisher therefore cannot be
    said to have submitted to the officers’ show of authority until
    at least 2:13 p.m., when he began speaking to the police over
    the throw phone.
    [16] As Hodari D. emphasizes, when a seizure is effectu-
    ated through a show of authority rather than through any sort
    of application of physical force, there is no seizure until there
    is a submission to authority by the suspect; assertion of
    authority alone by the police is not 
    enough. 499 U.S. at 629
    .
    After Hodari D., the officers’ show of authority and the “loca-
    tion of the arrested person,” 
    Johnson, 626 F.2d at 757
    , at the
    time of that show of authority remain significant under the
    Fourth Amendment, but it is the suspect’s actions in response
    to the show of authority that controls the timing of a seizure
    when the seizure is not accomplished through the use of phys-
    ical force.
    [17] Following Hodari D., we conclude that there was no
    evidence establishing that Fisher was arrested pursuant to the
    officers’ show of authority until he submitted to that show of
    authority by agreeing to emerge from his home and then
    doing so. Even after the MERGE team applied physical force
    by tossing in CS gas canisters, Fisher attempted to ignore the
    police, generally refusing to speak with them and declining to
    come out of his home. The rocks thrown at his window, the
    flash-bang device, and the bullhorn failed to convince him to
    leave. The police began sending CS gas canisters into his
    apartment at 1 p.m. After two rounds of CS gas canisters,
    approximately six volleys in total, caused glass to shatter into
    his face as well as making it hard for him to breathe and see,
    Fisher finally agreed to submit to police authority by leaving
    his house at 2:35 p.m. At that point, the jury could only rea-
    sonably conclude, Fisher was seized — indeed, arrested —
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                493
    even though he had also been seized earlier through the appli-
    cation of physical force that failed to bring him within com-
    plete police control.
    C.   Entries to Effect Fisher’s Seizure or Arrest After
    6:30 a.m.
    Our holdings that Fisher was seized both when he was
    physically affected by the CS gas canisters tossed into his
    home and when he submitted to the officers’ show of author-
    ity by agreeing at the end of the standoff to accede to police
    demands to come out of his home are not, however, the end
    of our inquiry.
    As described above, under Payton, the warrant requirement
    is triggered by the officers’ entry into the home for the pur-
    pose of seizing someone rather than by the seizure itself, so
    the timing of entry for purposes of effectuating an arrest or
    seizure is what matters. Payton’s focus on the entry into the
    home as the critical constitutional factor leads to two other
    corollary principles central to this case: First, as this circuit
    and the only other one to address the question squarely have
    held, the Payton warrant requirement applies to situations in
    which officers force a suspect out of his home to arrest him,
    because “[o]therwise, arresting officers could avoid illegal
    ‘entry’ into a home simply by remaining outside the doorway
    and controlling the movements of suspects within through the
    use of weapons that greatly extend the ‘reach’ of the arresting
    officers.” 
    Johnson, 626 F.2d at 757
    ; accord 
    Morgan, 743 F.2d at 1164
    . Consequently, in a standoff situation such as this one,
    any seizure takes place inside the home for Payton purposes
    as opposed to outside of it, because the police officers,
    through their coercive action, constructively enter into a per-
    son’s home and force him outside, to be taken into custody.
    See 
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 893
    & n.1 (holding that “Payton
    [is] applicable . . . because . . . surrounding the house and
    ordering the suspect out [is] a ‘constructive entry,’ and
    494                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    because the suspect emerged from the house only because of
    police coercion”); 
    Morgan, 743 F.2d at 1164
    .
    Second, even if exigent circumstances existed at the time
    officers make an initial warrantless entry, such an entry does
    not excuse the officers from the warrant requirement if the
    arrest happens after a second, discrete entry and the exigency
    dissipates before then. Cf. United States v. Hackett, 
    638 F.2d 1179
    , 1185-86 (9th Cir. 1980) (considering whether the exi-
    gency had dissipated between the warrantless entry into the
    suspect’s garage and the warrantless entry into the suspect’s
    house). Just as, under our understanding of Hodari D. the
    warrant requirement remains applicable to later seizures after
    an unsuccessful one, absent exigency, an entry pursuant to a
    warrant exception does not excuse all further warrantless
    entries for purposes of effectuating an arrest.
    [18] Putting these principles together, we hold that the Pay-
    ton in-house warrant requirement in a standoff situation is
    triggered each time police take an action that (1) either itself
    constitutes a seizure or is designed to force a suspect from his
    home to submit to police authority; and (2) is sufficient to
    constitute an entry. Here, the officers coercively intruded into
    Fisher’s apartment in an effort to force him to emerge after
    6:30 a.m., and before he finally did emerge at 2:35 p.m. Dur-
    ing that period, the police used CS gas, bullhorns, a flash-
    bang device, and a throw phone with an open microphone to
    prod him. Tossing in the CS gas was itself a seizure of Fisher
    at home, as we have already explained, and therefore neces-
    sarily an entry, and lobbing in the throw phone, with its open
    microphone, was also an entry. See Kyllo v. U.S., 
    533 U.S. 27
    (2001) (comparing sense-enhancing technology used to obtain
    information about a home’s interior to physical intrusion for
    Fourth Amendment purposes); 
    Silverman, 365 U.S. at 509-11
    (holding that it was a physical intrusion to extend a micro-
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                        495
    phone into a house). Thus, each action triggered the warrant
    requirement.14
    For each of these intrusions sufficient to trigger Payton, the
    officers were required to have a warrant or establish circum-
    stances excusing the warrant requirement. As the officers in
    this case never obtained a warrant, the City must demonstrate
    that, at the time of each entry, exigent circumstances existed
    such that a warrant could not have safely been obtained prior
    to the entry.15
    In sum, at least some of the tactics the MERGE team used
    after it arrived were sufficiently coercive and intrusive to con-
    stitute entries into Fisher’s home for the purpose of effectuat-
    ing an arrest. Some of these tactics, indeed, involved actual,
    physical intrusion into Fisher’s home, and may be best
    regarded as actual rather than constructive entries. Absent exi-
    gency, a warrant was required before those actions were taken.16
    14
    We need not decide whether other actions, not involving physical
    objects thrown into Fisher’s apartment, constituted entries under Al-
    Azzawy.
    15
    As noted earlier, Alvarez tolled the period of exigency during the offi-
    cers’ attempts to obtain a warrant, as warrants cannot be obtained instanta-
    
    neously. 810 F.2d at 883
    (holding that “the government either . . . attempt,
    in good faith, to secure a warrant, or . . . present evidence explaining why
    a telephone warrant was unavailable or impractical” (emphasis added)).
    Thus, we are not commanding that officers leave the scene of a standoff
    once the exigency has disappeared. Instead, we require only that they
    begin to attempt to obtain a warrant when that attempt becomes feasible,
    given all the circumstances, while continuing in the meantime their efforts
    to maintain the peace and bring the suspect under control.
    16
    We do not mean to suggest that more than one arrest warrant was
    required. Cf. Carlson v. Landon, 
    342 U.S. 524
    , 546-47 (1952) (even once
    an arrest warrant is fully executed, rearrest may be possible without a new
    warrant, especially in cases when the detainee has escaped); United States
    v. Martin, 
    399 F.3d 879
    , 881 (7th Cir. 2005) (“The fourth amendment’s
    rules for warrants do not include time limits.”). Rather, our point is that
    there were police activities taken after 6:30 a.m. for which one arrest war-
    rant could have been obtained without a dangerous delay and was
    required.
    496                  FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    D.    Exigency at the Time of the Entries
    The pivotal question, consequently, becomes whether any
    or all of the entries for the purpose of arresting or seizing
    Fisher occurred at a time when any exigency had passed —
    that is, when it would have been possible to attempt to obtain
    a warrant without causing a dangerous delay. We conclude
    that there was insufficient evidence of such exigency for some
    time before the first CS gas canisters were thrown, so the fail-
    ure to obtain a warrant before then is not excusable.
    We have used a nonexhaustive list of criteria first enunci-
    ated in Dorman v. United States, 
    435 F.2d 385
    , 392-93 (D.C.
    Cir. 1970) (en banc), to determine whether circumstances
    meet the dangerousness prong of the exigency requirement.
    See United States v. Blake, 
    632 F.2d 731
    , 733 (9th Cir. 1980).17
    Those criteria are: (1) that a grave offense is involved; (2) that
    the suspect is reasonably believed to be armed; (3) there exists
    a clear showing of probable cause; (4) that there is a strong
    reason to believe the suspect is in the premises; (5) that there
    is a likelihood that the suspect will escape; and (6) that peace-
    able entry is made onto the premises. See 
    Dorman, 435 F.2d at 392-93
    . Here, the Dorman factors suggest no clear result:
    Fisher was armed, he concedes probable cause, and he was
    definitely on the premises; but no grave offense was involved
    in this case, he was not likely to escape, and the entry was not
    peaceable.
    The jury — which was not specifically instructed on the
    Dorman factors, but had before it evidence concerning each
    of them — must have determined that sufficiently dangerous
    circumstances existed at some point, as it found that the arrest
    was not unlawful. Such a determination is reasonable. View-
    ing the evidence in the light most favorable to the City, the
    officers were certainly justified in considering Fisher a danger
    17
    Dorman explicitly noted that the list of considerations was not com-
    
    prehensive. 435 F.2d at 392
    .
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                       497
    both to themselves and to the public. He was intoxicated, ram-
    bling about his Second Amendment rights, carrying a rifle and
    sometimes pointing it at police officers, tinkering repeatedly
    with seventeen more rifles, and making threatening com-
    ments. He was certainly not a man who could be counted on
    to remain peaceful. That is true after 6:30 a.m. as well as
    before.
    Exigency, however, requires more than the dangerous cir-
    cumstances that Dorman contemplates. See United States v.
    Good, 
    780 F.2d 773
    , 775 (9th Cir. 1986) (“Exigent circum-
    stances alone, however, are insufficient as the government
    must also show that a warrant could not have been [safely]
    obtained in time.”).18 It is not determinative of the exigency
    issue that, as the City argues, Fisher “continued to present an
    imminent threat of danger to the officers and the community
    despite the fact that he had not been seen for a period of
    time.” Although the degree of danger is directly related to
    whether a warrant could have been obtained — such that the
    more dangerous the circumstances, the less likely the police
    can safely obtain a warrant without compromising their
    peacekeeping duties — danger alone cannot justify a warrant-
    less entry for the purpose of effectuating an arrest. Instead, we
    require that the “government [separately] demonstrate[ ] that
    a warrant could not have been obtained in time.” 
    Manfredi, 722 F.2d at 522
    .
    Here, there is no such showing. The evidence undisputedly
    shows that there were enough officers working on Fisher’s
    case, with enough time to obtain a warrant before the police
    sent the first of the CS gas canisters into Fisher’s apartment.
    Before 7 a.m., Fisher had been seen pointing a rifle at the
    officers, the action relied upon as providing probable cause
    18
    Unlike Good, we use the term “exigent circumstances” to encompass
    both (a) the danger or other compelling need to enter, and (b) the inability
    to obtain a warrant in time.
    498                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    for the later arrest. At least some of the officers who had
    observed the worst of Fisher’s behavior left the scene at 7
    a.m. and returned to the station house, where they or their col-
    leagues could have initiated warrant proceedings. By 1 p.m.,
    many officers had been at Fisher’s apartment complex for
    several hours. There, too, officers could have initiated warrant
    proceedings by telephone. Such a warrant would have cov-
    ered the entries effected in the afternoon and the seizures and
    final arrest thereafter.
    [20] Unlike the one-hour delay in seizing a suspect’s house
    that we considered in Lindsey, the delay the officers faced at
    Fisher’s apartment complex was neither unexpected, caused
    by lack of additional assistance, nor, comparatively, short. 
    See 877 F.2d at 782
    . Indeed, here there was considerably more
    time and more opportunity to obtain a warrant than there was
    in Alvarez, in which we concluded that the police should have
    sought a warrant.
    In Alvarez, there was a potentially armed and dangerous
    drug dealer in a hotel room, whom police suspected was
    growing increasingly suspicious that his agents had not
    returned from a drug deal. We determined, however, that even
    in such serious circumstances, the officers could have
    attempted to obtain a telephonic warrant in the ninety minutes
    to two hours before the agents returned. 
    See 810 F.2d at 881
    -
    83.
    [21] We thus conclude that on the record before us, the
    only reasonable conclusion is that although the situation cer-
    tainly remained dangerous, there was sufficient police pres-
    ence and sufficient time after probable cause was established
    that an arrest warrant could have been obtained well before
    one or more of the entries that led to Fisher’s seizure.
    Although our dissenting colleague maintains, quite sensibly,
    that the danger created by Fisher’s action did not dissipate
    until he succumbed, she fails entirely to address the second
    prong of the inquiry — whether the police had enough time
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                        499
    and manpower to seek a warrant during the extended standoff
    and before one or more of the successive entries. Because
    there was such opportunity, the failure to obtain a warrant by
    early afternoon — before 1 p.m. at the very latest — was uncon-
    stitutional.19
    IV.    Conclusion
    Standoffs with barricaded suspects present hard decision-
    making problems for police, often requiring split-second tacti-
    cal determinations. The results can be tragic even when the
    police behavior is for the most part quite reasonable. See, e.g.,
    
    Ewolski, 287 F.3d at 499
    (involving the object of a standoff
    who shot himself and his son during the standoff). A warrant
    may not prevent such tragic occurrences. But interposing a
    neutral and detached magistrate between the police, who are
    “acting under the excitement that attends the capture of per-
    sons accused of crime,” United States v. Lefkowitz, 
    285 U.S. 452
    , 464 (1932), and the citizen, who may or may not have
    committed a wrong, may, on occasion, bring a useful perspec-
    tive to the situation. 
    Id. (“[T]he informed
    and deliberate deter-
    minations of magistrates empowered to issue warrants as to
    what searches and seizures are permissible under the Consti-
    tution are to be preferred over the hurried action of officers
    and others who may happen to make arrests.”); see also John-
    19
    Contrary to the dissent’s assertion, Dissent at 516-17 & n.9, we do not
    dispute the Sixth Circuit’s conclusion in Estate of Bing v. City of White-
    hall, 
    456 F.3d 555
    (6th Cir. 2006), that a danger to officers exists and con-
    tinues throughout a standoff outside the home of an armed individual.
    Under our circuit’s precedents, however, that is not the end of the inquiry.
    We must also consider whether the police could, as a practical matter,
    have obtained a warrant before effecting the final entry or entries. The
    very Ninth Circuit case upon which Bing relies in holding that dangerous
    circumstances supporting an exigency exception can continue for some
    time, Lindsey, so emphasized, stating: “A finding of exigent circum-
    stances, however, does not end our inquiry. Since exigent circumstances
    imply that there is insufficient time to obtain a warrant, the government
    must show that a warrant, including a telephonic warrant, could not have
    been obtained in 
    time.” 877 F.2d at 782
    .
    500                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    son v. United States, 
    333 U.S. 10
    , 14 (1948) (noting that the
    Fourth Amendment’s “protection consists in requiring that
    those inferences be drawn by a neutral and detached magis-
    trate instead of being judged by the officer engaged in the
    often competitive enterprise of ferreting out crime”). The war-
    rant requirement’s goal is to permit a third party to evaluate
    whether the police should be intervening into a situation at all.
    If not, police retreat can prevent an awkward situation from
    escalating into a dangerous one.
    Here, it may well be that a timely application to a magis-
    trate would have resulted in issuance of a warrant for Fisher’s
    arrest and events would then have proceeded pretty much as
    they did. But that is not certain, and is in any event beside the
    point. The criminal jury hung on the felony count presented
    to it, so it is at least possible that a magistrate would have
    thought the police lacked probable cause on the charge for
    which he was arrested. More importantly, it is precisely to
    require the officers involved to articulate the grounds for
    arrest and to obtain the views of a dispassionate magistrate on
    the adequacy of those grounds that a warrant is required.
    Here, there were plenty of police officers involved and
    there was plenty of time — at least several hours — to obtain
    such a warrant. It was unconstitutional to fail to do so.
    AFFIRMED.
    CALLAHAN, Circuit Judge, dissenting:
    I respectfully dissent.
    What we have here is a very dangerous situation that was
    resolved safely for all concerned — Fisher, the public, and the
    police — because of good police work. Nevertheless, the
    majority undertakes to micro-manage, or worse, browbeat the
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                      501
    police for failing to obtain a telephonic warrant in the midst
    of a police standoff that could have turned deadly at any
    moment.1 After reviewing all the facts and receiving proper
    instructions on the law, twelve jurors unanimously found that
    the police had handled the situation lawfully. We should
    accept the wisdom of the jurors’ decision.
    As judges, we should not arm-chair quarterback a crisis
    from the safety of our chambers. Such post-game analysis is
    disconnected from reality and leads to the inappropriate deter-
    mination, in this case that San Jose police officers need train-
    ing despite the jury’s finding that they did nothing wrong. In
    my view, the police handled the situation in exemplary fash-
    ion and in full compliance with the law. I would reverse the
    district court’s grant of Fisher’s FRCP 50(b) motion and
    restore the jury’s verdict because the verdict was supported by
    substantial evidence.
    A renewed motion for judgment as a matter of law pursuant
    to FRCP 50(b) is properly granted “if the evidence, construed
    in the light most favorable to the nonmoving party, permits
    only one reasonable conclusion, and that conclusion is con-
    trary to the jury’s verdict.” Pavao v. Pagay, 
    307 F.3d 915
    ,
    918 (9th Cir. 2002). “A jury’s verdict must be upheld if it is
    supported by substantial evidence, which is evidence adequate
    to support the jury’s conclusion, even if it is also possible to
    draw a contrary conclusion.” 
    Id. Indeed, we
    may not substi-
    tute our view of the evidence for that of the jury. 
    Id. The majority
    simply disregards this standard.
    1
    Our precedents acknowledge that “[a] telephonic warrant may not be
    obtained simply by calling a magistrate. Among other things, a ‘duplicate
    original warrant’ must be prepared in writing and read to the magistrate
    verbatim.” United States v. Manfredi, 
    722 F.2d 519
    , 523 (9th Cir. 1983).
    Furthermore, we have concluded that it is not “a simple procedure.”
    United States v. Good, 
    780 F.2d 773
    , 775 (9th Cir.) cert. denied, 
    475 U.S. 1111
    (1986).
    502                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    In addition, the majority concludes that the San Jose Police
    Department seized Fisher for purposes of the Fourth Amend-
    ment at three “possible junctures”: before 6:30 a.m., when
    they began surrounding his apartment; at approximately 1:00
    p.m., when he was physically affected by the CS gas canis-
    ters, or alternatively at 2:35 p.m., when he submitted to the
    officers’ show of authority by submitting to police demands
    to come out of his apartment. This confusing, impractical, and
    unworkable conclusion is based on an unreasonable interpre-
    tation of the Supreme Court’s decision in California v. Hodari
    D., 
    499 U.S. 621
    , 628-29 (1991) that requires a logical leap
    to decide that a person surrounded in his apartment “escapes”
    for the purposes of the Fourth Amendment by disappearing
    from view or ignoring the bullhorns, CS canisters, throw
    phones, and the armed officers surrounding his apartment.
    FACTS
    The following facts emerge from the record. Fisher was
    drinking and cleaning 18 guns in his apartment. A security
    guard at his apartment complex called the police when Fish-
    er’s behavior became menacing. The police arrived shortly
    after midnight. Fisher was unresponsive for the most part, but
    insisted on talking about his Second Amendment rights. At
    approximately 3:00-4:00 a.m., Officer Jan Males, a tactical
    negotiator, arrived. Fisher told her that he had a right to bear
    arms. He also invited her into his apartment, but threatened to
    shoot her if she came in. Officer Males considered this to be
    a criminal threat — a felony.
    Throughout the night, officers observed Fisher through the
    windows of his apartment walking around with a rifle in his
    hand, and more than once, aiming the rifle out of the apart-
    ment in the general direction of the officers. Officer Boler tes-
    tified that he saw Fisher point one of his rifles toward
    Sergeant Ryan and Officer Males twice between 2:45 a.m.
    and 4:00 a.m., and that he was moving his rifles around his
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                 503
    apartment. At 6:23 a.m., Fisher was seen again with a rifle,
    apparently loading it.
    At 7:00 a.m., the department’s Mobile Emergency
    Response Group (MERGE) took control of the scene, and the
    officers who originally responded to the scene left. By 7:30
    a.m., the police had evacuated all of the apartments in Fish-
    er’s building. One occupant, whose front door was near Fish-
    er’s residence, was evacuated by cutting a hole in her
    apartment wall that allowed her to leave through a neighbor-
    ing apartment instead of walking across the front of Fisher’s
    apartment. At 8:48 a.m., the police turned off the power in
    Fisher’s apartment in an attempt to force him out. They also
    broke his sliding glass door and tossed in a “throw phone” so
    that they could communicate with Fisher because his phone
    line was busy. At 10:52 a.m., the police set off a “flash-bang”
    device to get Fisher’s attention and briefly disorient him. At
    1:00 p.m., police began throwing gas canisters into the apart-
    ment, to no avail. Finally, at 2:13 p.m., police established tele-
    phone contact with Fisher via the throw phone and he agreed
    to leave the apartment unarmed. The police then took him into
    custody.
    DISCUSSION
    A warrantless search does not violate the Fourth Amend-
    ment where officers have probable cause to believe that a
    crime has been committed, and there are exigent circum-
    stances such that a warrant could not have been obtained
    without causing a dangerous delay. United States v. Manfredi,
    
    722 F.2d 519
    , 522 (9th Cir. 1983). Fisher concedes that offi-
    cers had probable cause; the issue is whether exigent circum-
    stances excused the City’s failure to obtain a warrant before
    arresting him. This inquiry requires us to determine first,
    when the warrantless arrest occurred, and second, whether
    there were exigent circumstances at the time of the arrest to
    excuse the failure to obtain a warrant. Our consideration of
    these issues on their merits is complicated by the majority’s
    504                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    unnecessary, and in my opinion, incorrect analysis of the jury
    instructions.
    A.   Instructional Error.
    “Failure to object to an instruction waives the right of
    review.” Affordable Hous. Dev. Corp. v. City of Fresno, 
    433 F.3d 1182
    , 1196 (9th Cir. 2006). The Ninth Circuit does not
    review the adequacy of instructions given where the party
    does not object. See Bird v. Lewis & Clark College, 
    303 F.3d 1015
    , 1022-23 (9th Cir. 2002) (“As an initial matter, we note
    that Bird did not object to the instructions given by the district
    court. Accordingly, we do not review the adequacy of the
    instructions that were given.”).
    The majority acknowledges that Fisher failed to object to
    the jury instructions concerning the law of arrest, but nonethe-
    less it proceeds to argue that the district court’s jury instruc-
    tions were incomplete and inadequate. Federal Rule of Civil
    Procedure 51 states that “no party may assign as error the giv-
    ing or the failure to give an instruction unless that party
    objects thereto before the jury retires to consider its verdict,
    stating distinctly the matter objected to and the grounds of the
    objection.” The majority’s insistence on considering, and crit-
    icizing the jury instructions is contrary to the Ninth Circuit’s
    role as an “enforcer of Rule 51.” Hammer v. Gross, 
    932 F.2d 842
    , 847 (9th Cir. 1991). By refusing to abide by the principle
    that, where a party fails to object to the instruction, this court
    must “review [a] sufficiency of the evidence claim under the
    controlling instruction,” the majority threatens to undermine
    bedrock principles limiting the scope of our review of jury tri-
    als. Image Tech. Serv. v. Eastman Kodak Co., 
    125 F.3d 1195
    ,
    1206 (9th Cir. 1997) (refusing to consider argument concern-
    ing jury instruction the party waived by failing to object.).
    The focus in this case should remain on whether the jury’s
    verdict was supported by substantial evidence, discarding all
    evidence favorable to Fisher that the jury is not required to
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                        505
    believe, and drawing all reasonable inferences in favor of the
    City of San Jose - not on jury instructions that were not only
    correct and complete, but that Fisher failed to object to during
    the trial. See Johnson v. Paradise Valley Unified School Dist.,
    
    251 F.3d 1222
    , 1227-28 (9th Cir. 2001) (stating standard of
    review where the district court grants a Rule 50 motion.).
    B.    The Arrest.
    The majority concludes that the warrantless seizure for pur-
    poses of arrest occurred either at 1:00 p.m., when the CS can-
    isters were thrown into Fisher’s apartment, or at 2:35 p.m.,
    when Fisher came out of his apartment.2 Citing United States
    v. Al-Azzawy, 
    784 F.2d 890
    (9th Cir. 1985), the City argues
    that the arrest occurred much earlier under clearly exigent cir-
    cumstances, when police first began using tactics to encour-
    age Fisher to leave his home.3
    The majority suggests that Al-Azzawy can be distinguished
    because in that case, the suspect emerged from his dwelling
    soon after a show of authority by police, whereas Fisher did
    not for several hours after police began attempts to force him
    out of his apartment. To the majority, this distinction is signif-
    icant, because an arrest requires either physical force or sub-
    mission to the assertion of authority. Citing California v.
    Hodari 
    D., 499 U.S. at 624-25
    , the majority concludes that
    Fisher was not arrested until he submitted to the police.
    2
    The district court found only that the officers seized Fisher in his home
    during this encounter. Any contrary conclusions about when specifically
    the arrest occurred approaches improper appellate fact-finding, especially
    in light of our obligation to make all reasonable inferences in favor of the
    jury’s verdict.
    3
    Al-Azzawy held that because the defendant “was in his trailer at the
    time he was surrounded by armed officers, and since he did not voluntarily
    expose himself to their view or control outside his trailer, but only
    emerged under circumstances of extreme coercion, the arrest occurred
    while he was still inside his trailer.” 
    Id. at 893.
    506                 FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    In Hodari, the issue was whether the defendant had been
    seized within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment at the
    time he dropped a brick of cocaine when he saw an officer
    running toward 
    him. 499 U.S. at 623
    . Ultimately, the Supreme
    Court determined that there was no seizure under these facts.
    Nevertheless, the Court made clear:
    “[A] person has been ‘seized’ within the meaning of
    the Fourth Amendment only if, in view of all the cir-
    cumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable
    person would have believed that he was not free to
    
    leave.” 499 U.S. at 627-28
    , quoting United States v. Mendenhall, 
    446 U.S. 544
    , 554 (1980). Hodari D. does not require subjective
    submission to police authority for purposes of a Fourth
    Amendment seizure, as the majority suggests, nor is there any
    requirement that physical submission take place immediately
    following a show of authority by police. Instead, it stands for
    the unremarkable proposition that pursuit alone is an insuffi-
    cient show of authority to constitute an arrest. Hodari 
    D., 499 U.S. at 629
    . More importantly, Hodari D. reiterated that the
    test for when someone is seized for the purposes of the Fourth
    Amendment is an objective one. Therefore, twelve jurors
    were presumably able to determine when “a reasonable per-
    son would have believed that he was not free to leave.” Men-
    
    denhall, 446 U.S. at 554
    .
    Al-Azzawy and the cases cited therein make no mention of
    how much time passed between the police’s show of authority
    and the physical submission of the defendant. 
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 891
    . Indeed, Al-Azzawy holds that an arrest occurs at
    the time that police make clear that the suspect is not free to
    leave his or her dwelling:
    [W]hether an arrest has occurred depends upon an
    objective, not subjective, evaluation of what a person
    innocent of a crime would have thought of the situa-
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                   507
    tion, given all of the factors involved. When an
    arrest has occurred depends in each case upon an
    evaluation of all the surrounding circumstances. Pri-
    mary among these is a determination of whether or
    not the defendant was free to choose between termi-
    nating or continuing the encounter with the law
    enforcement officers. . . .
    From a review of all of the circumstances surround-
    ing the encounter between [the appellant] and the
    special agents, we find that appellant’s arrest
    occurred as he stood within his home at the doorway
    of his home and was first confronted by the agents
    with their guns drawn. . . . It is extremely doubtful
    that [appellant] would have believed that he was free
    to leave at any time or to request the officers to leave
    after the initial encounter. A reasonable person,
    under those circumstances, would have thought he
    was under arrest.
    
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 892-893
    , citing United States v. John-
    son, 
    626 F.2d 753
    , 755-56 (9th Cir. 1980), aff’d on other
    grounds, 
    457 U.S. 537
    (1982). See also United States v. Pat-
    terson, 
    648 F.2d 625
    , 632 (9th Cir. 1981) (citation omitted)
    (“Whether an arrest has occurred ‘depends on all of the sur-
    rounding circumstances, including the extent that freedom of
    movement is curtailed and the degree and type of force or
    authority used to effectuate the stop.’ . . . The question is
    whether, under all of the circumstances, ‘a reasonable person
    would conclude he was under arrest.’ ”). This is an objective
    standard. The question is whether a reasonable person would
    believe that he or she was free to leave under the circum-
    stances. Hodari 
    D., 499 U.S. at 627-28
    ; 
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 892-93
    .
    As the majority acknowledges, this was the standard the
    district court used when it instructed the jury regarding the
    law of arrest. Nothing has changed the standard for arrest
    508                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    between when we decided Al-Azzawy and today. The majority
    states as much by relying on the Supreme Court’s definition
    that a person is seized when, “taking into account all of the
    circumstances surrounding the encounter, the police conduct
    would ‘have communicated to a reasonable person that he
    was not at liberty to ignore the police presence and go about
    his business.’ ”4 Florida v. Bostick, 
    501 U.S. 429
    , 437 (1991)
    (quoting Michigan v. Chesternut, 
    486 U.S. 567
    , 569 (1988)
    and citing Hodari 
    D., 499 U.S. at 628
    ). Yet the majority now
    faults the district court for instructing the jury using language
    taken directly from Terry v. Ohio, 
    392 U.S. 1
    , 19 n. 16 (1968)
    and Men
    denhall, 446 U.S. at 554
    . The majority states that the
    jury was improperly instructed on the standard for identifying
    an arrest, yet it fails to state what the new jury instruction
    regarding arrest should be, or suggest a new, more compre-
    hensive jury instruction that would satisfy its new standard.
    The majority appears to be announcing a new principle in
    Fourth Amendment law: that, in the context of barricaded sus-
    pects or armed standoffs, the standard for whether the suspect
    feels “free to leave” is no longer a reasonable person standard
    that a jury may decide, but a subjective standard based on the
    suspect’s reaction to being surrounded by armed officers, and
    being told to lay down his 18 guns and exit his apartment. The
    majority finds it persuasive that “Fisher was quite clear that
    he did not wish to leave,” and that Fisher expressed a desire
    to go about his business at home. Not only does the majority
    ignore the Supreme Court’s repeated statements that the stan-
    dard is an objective one that may be determined by the rea-
    4
    The majority gives too much meaning to the phrase “go about his busi-
    ness” as used in Bostick. This language did not change the inquiry into a
    subjective one, but is simply a restatement of the objective standard for a
    detention that the Supreme Court used in Mendenhall. The Supreme Court
    explicitly discussed Bostick in Hodari D. and concluded that “Mendenhall
    establishes that the test for existence of a ‘show of authority’ is an objec-
    tive one: not whether the citizen perceived that he was being ordered to
    restrict his movement, but whether the officer’s words and actions would
    have conveyed that to a reasonable person.” Hodari 
    D., 499 U.S. at 628
    .
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE               509
    sonable people on a jury, but their position ignores the
    practical reality that armed standoffs and barricaded suspects
    often involve irrational, desperate, and decidedly unreason-
    able people.
    The majority’s misguided analysis of the facts concentrates
    on Fisher’s state of mind and actions, ignoring the mountain
    of evidence before the jury about the MERGE team surround-
    ing the apartment with sirens blaring, pointing guns at Fisher,
    telling Fisher to come out through a bullhorn, tossing in a
    throw phone, and using other means of informing Fisher that
    he was surrounded, and that he should surrender peacefully.
    Here, the MERGE arrived at around 7:00 a.m., evacuated the
    building at 7:30 a.m., and shut off Fisher’s power at 8:48 a.m.
    A reasonable person could conclude that he or she was not
    free to choose between terminating or continuing the encoun-
    ter with the law enforcement officers when MERGE arrived,
    but would be certain of it by the time the power was shut off.
    Construing the evidence in the light most favorable to the
    City, 
    Pavao, 307 F.3d at 918
    , it would have been perfectly
    reasonable for the jury to conclude that the arrest occurred
    when the police surrounded Fisher’s apartment. The twelve
    people on the jury could have, and in this case certainly did
    conclude that this behavior constituted the arrest. The major-
    ity points to no evidence that shows that this is an unreason-
    able interpretation of the facts under Supreme Court or our
    court’s precedent, or that any other interpretation would have
    been compelled by any new or implied jury instructions.
    C.   Escape.
    After conceding that the jury could have found that the San
    Jose Police Department seized Fisher for the purposes of the
    Fourth Amendment before 6:30 a.m., the majority raised the
    question of whether or not he escaped for the purposes of the
    Fourth Amendment and concluded that he had. The majority
    reasons that Fisher “escaped” by disappearing from view and
    refusing to come out, and therefore, in order to seize Fisher
    510                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    again, the officers had to secure an arrest warrant, or addi-
    tional arrest warrants. Nothing in the Supreme Court’s deci-
    sion in Hodari D., relied upon by the majority for this odd
    proposition, compels this result.
    In Hodari D., the Supreme Court discussed the narrow
    question whether a show of authority (pursuing the defendant)
    alone seizes the 
    person. 499 U.S. at 625-26
    . The Supreme
    Court stated that an arrest requires “either physical force” or
    “submission to an assertion of authority.” 
    Id. at 626
    (emphasis
    in original). Applying this principle to the facts, the Court
    concluded that no seizure occurs while the suspect is fleeing
    from a show of authority. 
    Id. at 628-29.
    Hodari D. concerned fleeing in public, on public streets,
    however, not a situation where a person is surrounded in their
    own home. See 
    id. at 622-23
    (discussing facts in the case —
    that Hodari D. began fleeing from the officers on sight, tossed
    an object later determined to be crack cocaine, and then the
    officer tackled Hodari D.). The majority’s interpretation of
    Hodari D. to mean that Fisher escaped by remaining in his
    apartment contradicts the principle that a person is seized
    when “in view of all the circumstances surrounding the inci-
    dent, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not
    free to leave.”5 Men
    denhall, 446 U.S. at 554
    . Logically, the
    majority’s conclusion overturns our jurisprudence holding
    that a person is seized in his or her home for the purposes of
    the Fourth Amendment when the officers make a show of
    5
    The Sixth Circuit rejected this argument in Ewolski v. City of Bruns-
    wick, concluding that surrounding the house and parading an armored
    vehicle in front of the house were “an intentional application of physical
    force and show of authority made with the intent of acquiring physical
    control.” 
    287 F.3d 492
    , 506 (6th Cir. 2002). The majority’s interpretation
    of escape in the context of barricaded or surrounded suspects creates an
    unnecessary inter-circuit split of authority, without any compelling reason.
    See Kelton Arms Condo. Ass’n v. Homestead Ins. Co., 
    346 F.3d 1190
    ,
    1192 (9th Cir. 2003) (“we decline to create a circuit split unless there is
    a compelling reason to do so.”).
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                      511
    force sufficient to convey to a reasonable person that he is
    under arrest and not free to leave his home or dwelling. See
    
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 893
    (affirming the district court’s fil-
    ing that the suspect was arrested inside his residence where
    “the police had completely surrounded appellee’s trailer with
    their weapons drawn and ordered him through a bullhorn to
    leave the trailer and drop to his knees.”).
    In my view, the better, more reasonable, interpretation of
    submission for the purposes of barricaded or surrounded sus-
    pects is that the person submits by remaining barricaded or
    remaining in the home. This interpretation is consistent with
    our own precedent in Al-Azzawy and the decisions in other
    circuits. See 
    Al-Azzawy, 784 F.2d at 893
    ; 
    Ewolski, 287 F.3d at 506
    ; see also United States v. Maez, 
    872 F.2d 1444
    , 1450
    (10 Cir. 1989) (collecting cases.). The suspect in that situation
    has accepted that there is, in effect, only one peaceful out-
    come — his or her eventual surrender. Only if the suspect
    flees and successfully evades the police blockade by leaving
    the house or other building the police surrounded and eludes
    attempts to take them into physical custody, may the suspect
    be said to have escaped and an arrest warrant becomes neces-
    sary.
    To say that a suspect escapes every time he or she retreats
    from public view even though the officers know that he or she
    is in the building and surrounded, creates an analytical night-
    mare for law enforcement agencies. For example, may a bank
    robbery suspect trapped in a bank “escape” under the majori-
    ty’s analysis by ducking behind the counter, requiring the
    police to obtain an arrest warrant to continue surrounding the
    building or before taking any further steps to resolve the situa-
    tion?6 Under the majority’s analysis, does a person “escape”
    6
    I would also refuse to impose a warrant requirement on efforts to uti-
    lize a “throw phone” to communicate with barricaded suspects. The cases
    cited by the majority, Kyllo v. U.S., 
    533 U.S. 27
    (2001) and Silverman v.
    U.S., 
    365 U.S. 505
    (1961) involved efforts to eavesdrop on suspects with-
    512                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    every time he or she moves to another room out of view of
    the officers, or closes the drapes or blinds?
    My interpretation complies with the Supreme Court’s
    admonition that courts “consider the law enforcement pur-
    poses to be served by the stop as well as the time reasonably
    needed to effectuate those purposes.” United States v. Sharpe,
    
    470 U.S. 675
    , 685 (1985). It also applies the same “common
    sense and ordinary human experience” that the jury presum-
    ably applied to the facts in this case. 
    Id. Therefore, I
    conclude
    that Fisher was arrested when the officers surrounded his
    apartment and it became readily apparent to a reasonable per-
    son that he was not free to leave. This occurred some time
    around 6:30 a.m. on October 24. I also conclude that Fisher
    did not escape for the purposes of the Fourth Amendment,
    and that police officers involved in standoffs are not required
    to obtain an arrest warrant every time the subject disappears
    from view. Because Fisher conceded that the officers had
    probable cause to arrest him when they surrounded his apart-
    ment, the remaining issue is whether or not exigent circum-
    stances continued between the seizure and when the officers
    took physical custody of Fisher. See Kirk v. Louisiana, 
    536 U.S. 635
    , 637-38 (2002) (requiring finding regarding exigent
    circumstances for complete analysis of a warrantless arrest
    and search.).
    D.    Exigent Circumstances.
    Exigent circumstances are “those circumstances that would
    cause a reasonable person to believe that entry . . . was neces-
    sary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons,
    out their knowledge. In particular, in Silverman, the officers used a “spike
    mike” inserted into a heating duct from the neighboring building to listen
    in on conversations. 
    Silverman, 365 U.S. at 506-07
    . With a throw phone,
    the intrusion is a good-faith effort to communicate with the barricaded
    suspect, who is plainly informed about the phone, and is free to toss the
    phone back to the officers.
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE               513
    the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of the suspect,
    or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate
    law enforcement concerns.” United States v. Brooks, 
    367 F.3d 1128
    , 1135 (9th Cir. 2004). “The exigencies must be viewed
    from the totality of circumstances known to the officers at the
    time of the warrantless intrusion.” United States v. Licata, 
    761 F.2d 537
    , 543 (9th Cir. 1985). As the Supreme Court recog-
    nized in Brigham City v. Stuart, “[t]he role of a peace officer
    includes preventing violence and restoring order, not simply
    rendering first aid to casualties.” ___ U.S. ___, 
    126 S. Ct. 1943
    , 1949 (2006). The majority acknowledges that the perti-
    nent time to determine whether an exigency exists is at the
    time that the arrest is effectuated, but then proceeds to ignore
    that principle.
    The district court granted Fisher’s Rule 50(b) motion
    because it found that there were no exigent circumstances
    between 6:30 a.m. and 2:35 p.m. because Mr. Fisher was not
    seen during this time. As noted, the jury reasonably could
    have concluded that the arrest occurred when the MERGE
    team surrounded the apartment and Fisher became aware he
    was surrounded. Regardless, the majority presumes to substi-
    tute its own version of the evidence for the jury’s determina-
    tions, and announces that the arrest did not occur until 1:00
    p.m. or later. At that time, the majority concludes, there were
    no exigent circumstances and thus, the warrantless arrest was
    invalid. Alternatively, the majority suggests that even if the
    arrest occurred earlier, when police surrounded Fisher’s apart-
    ment, “it is far from clear that sufficient exigency existed to
    explain the failure to obtain a warrant.” I disagree, as did the
    jury.
    The jury was instructed that “[e]xigent circumstances are
    those in which a substantial risk of harm to the persons
    involved or to the law enforcement process would arise if the
    police were to delay an arrest until a warrant could be
    obtained.” Although the jury verdict form did not require the
    jury to make a separate finding on exigent circumstances, the
    514                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    jury implicitly found sufficient exigency to excuse the war-
    rantless arrest when it returned a defense verdict.
    In an effort to undermine the jury’s determination, the
    majority latches onto Dorman v. United States, 
    435 F.2d 385
    ,
    392-93 (D.C. Cir. 1970) (en banc), and concludes that
    because the Dorman factors do not compel one clear result as
    to whether there was sufficient exigency at the time of the
    arrest, the jury erred when it implicitly found sufficient exi-
    gency. But see United States v. Snyder, 
    852 F.2d 471
    , 473-74
    (9th Cir. 1988) (finding acts incident to a valid arrest did not
    constitute additional arrests).
    The majority’s acknowledgment that the facts do not com-
    pel one clear result is an express concession that there is not
    only one reasonable conclusion that is contrary to the jury’s
    verdict. Accordingly, judges are not at liberty to disturb the
    verdict. 
    Pavao, 307 F.3d at 918
    . Moreover, the majority sig-
    nificantly understates the gravity of the circumstances. Offi-
    cers observed, and were told by Fisher’s wife, that Fisher was
    drinking heavily while cleaning some 18 guns and rifles.
    Indeed, Fisher admitted to drinking an entire twelve-pack of
    beer during the evening. Fisher moved the guns around his
    apartment throughout the night, pointed a rifle in the general
    direction of officers more than once, and on two occasions,
    aimed directly at two officers, one of whom he threatened to
    shoot if she accepted his invitation to enter his apartment. He
    was non-responsive to officers’ efforts to speak with him,
    other than to ramble about his Second Amendment right to
    bear arms. Officers felt, and the jurors evidently agreed, that
    Fisher posed a threat to the safety and security of the public
    and the officers.
    The majority also relies heavily on United States v. Alva-
    rez, 
    810 F.2d 879
    , 883 (9th Cir. 1987) to support an argument
    that we require a good-faith effort to obtain a warrant in every
    case where the government claims exigent circumstances.
    Alvarez is factually distinguishable because the exigent cir-
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE                         515
    cumstance claimed in Alvarez was that the police feared a sus-
    pect in another location might become suspicious if there was
    additional delay before delivery of a large amount of cocaine.
    
    Id. at 880.
    Furthermore, the holding in Alvarez was that exi-
    gent circumstances did not exist that could excuse the absence
    of, or failure to obtain, an arrest warrant. See 
    id. at 881,
    882
    (reviewing “a conclusion of exigent circumstances” de novo
    and concluding that “[t]he agent’s actions in this case were
    thus fundamentally inconsistent with any true exigency.”). In
    this case, the brandishing of firearms accompanied by threats
    against the officers, Fisher’s drinking, and Fisher’s erratic
    behavior all created a real and immediate danger to the public
    and the officers.
    The passage of dicta quoted by the majority does not sup-
    port a requirement that law enforcement make a good-faith
    effort to seek a warrant every time they claim an exigent cir-
    cumstance excuses the warrant.7 
    Id. at 883.
    Rather, the quoted
    passage stands for the unremarkable proposition that the gov-
    ernment must present sufficient evidence of exigent circum-
    stances or some other justification for not obtaining a warrant
    if exigent circumstances do not exist.8 
    Id. 7 The
    full passage from Alvarez reads:
    The government argues that obtaining a telephone warrant is not
    an easy task, and it points to our decision in United States v.
    
    Good, 780 F.2d at 775
    . But our decision here does not invariably
    require the government to have a telephone warrant before it
    moves in on a dangerous suspect. It simply requires the govern-
    ment to attempt, in good faith, to secure a warrant or to present
    evidence explaining why a telephone warrant was unavailable or
    
    impractical. 810 F.2d at 883
    .
    8
    Because, in my view, the majority announces a new warrant require-
    ment for armed standoffs when exigent circumstances clearly exist and
    continue until the end of the standoff, the officers may have been entitled
    to qualified immunity.
    516                   FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    The Sixth Circuit, in Estate of Bing v. City of Whitehall,
    analyzed a strikingly similar situation involving an armed
    standoff with an unstable, possibly intoxicated person and
    decided “that exigency did not terminate due to the passage
    of time or the police’s actions.” 
    456 F.3d 555
    , 565 (6th Cir.
    2006). Specifically, the Sixth Circuit noted that, “[t]he pas-
    sage of time did not terminate the exigency because the tick-
    ing of the clock did nothing to cut off Bing’s access to his
    gun, or cure him of his willingness to fire it, or move to safety
    the people nearby who refused to evacuate.”9 
    Id. Noting that
    the police had to take time to gather intelligence, wait for
    backup, and execute their plan, the Sixth Circuit concluded
    that these acts “did not terminate the exigency.” 
    Id. Further- more,
    the Sixth Circuit decided that “the gathering of infor-
    mation by police, even in the face of immediate danger, does
    not negate a dangerous exigency.”10 
    Id. at 566.
    In addition, the
    Sixth Circuit in Estate of Bing analyzed the use of alternative
    means — using pepper gas and a bag phone — for resolving
    the standoff, and found that they did not negate the exigency.
    
    Id. at 566-69.
    The majority’s decision creates a clear circuit split on how
    to analyze the exigent circumstances in an armed standoff,
    9
    The Sixth Circuit, ironically, cited to this court’s opinion in United
    States v. Lindsey, 
    877 F.2d 777
    , 782-83 (9th Cir. 1989), where we con-
    cluded that it was improper to evaluate exigent circumstances after the
    warrantless entry, and that a one-hour delay while officers waited for
    backup “did not dissipate the exigency.” The majority and the district
    court’s position that courts may analyze exigency after the seizure of a
    surrounded suspect, without evidence of any facts that negate the initial
    exigent circumstance, implicitly overrules Lindsey.
    10
    As the Supreme Court has stated, “[t]he Fourth Amendment does not
    require police officers to delay in the course of an investigation if to do
    so would gravely endanger their lives or the lives of others.” Warden v.
    Hayden, 
    387 U.S. 294
    , 298-99 (1967). We have also recognized this prin-
    ciple in the context of exigent circumstances. See Ortiz-Sandoval v.
    Clarke, 
    323 F.3d 1165
    , 1170 (9th Cir. 2003) (denying habeas corpus
    where delay by police for investigation did not negate exigent circum-
    stances); Bailey v. Newland, 
    263 F.3d 1022
    , 1033 (9th Cir. 2001) (same).
    FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE               517
    because it cannot be reconciled with the Sixth Circuit’s deci-
    sion in Estate of Bing. If the Sixth Circuit can reasonably con-
    clude that the exigency that created the need for officers to
    surround the home of an irrational, possibly intoxicated,
    armed gunman was not negated over the course of a five-hour
    standoff or the use of pepper gas and a bag phone, then why
    is it impossible for a jury to reasonably reach the same con-
    clusion?
    The twelve jurors in this case could have reasonably found
    that there was no evidence that sometime between 6:30 a.m.
    and 2:35 p.m., the officers knew that Fisher no longer had
    access to guns, was no longer irrational, or was no longer
    intoxicated. There is nothing in the record that affirmatively
    negates the exigency created by Fisher when he had 18 loaded
    firearms, threatened others, pointed his rifle at police, was
    intoxicated, and was acting irrationally. Under these circum-
    stances, officers had ample grounds to be seriously concerned
    about their own safety as well as the safety of the public, par-
    ticularly since the events took place in an apartment complex.
    Construing the evidence in the light most favorable to the
    City, as we are required to do, it cannot be said that the jury
    was unreasonable in concluding that there were exigent cir-
    cumstances that justified the City’s failure to obtain a warrant
    before arresting Fisher around 6:30 a.m., and that the exigent
    circumstances continued throughout the standoff.
    Armed standoffs are fluid and dangerous situations that are
    stressful, tense, and require difficult decisions to resolve
    peacefully. Not all of them result in the peaceful surrender of
    the suspect. See 
    Ewolski, 287 F.3d at 499
    -500 (mentally dis-
    turbed, armed, and dangerous father shot his son and him-
    self.). At any time, a standoff can end, or it can explode into
    violence. Sometimes, hostages are involved. Imposing a
    requirement that officers must, at some arbitrary and unde-
    fined point in an armed standoff, seek an arrest warrant is
    contrary to our precedent concluding that exigency is estab-
    lished at the time of arrest and continues until negated by
    518                FISHER v. CITY OF SAN JOSE
    some new act or fact. See 
    Lindsey, 877 F.2d at 781-82
    (con-
    cluding circumstances outside of the officers’ control did not
    dissipate the exigency.). Furthermore, imposing additional
    warrant requirements on the use of pepper gas, throw phones,
    and alternatives to deadly force during armed standoffs would
    not serve the Fourth Amendment’s purpose of preventing
    unreasonable searches and seizures, would create unnecessary
    confusion about the law, and may ultimately endanger the
    public, the police, and even the suspect.
    CONCLUSION
    The jurors in this case reached a verdict that was not only
    sufficiently supported by the evidence, but entirely proper
    under Supreme Court and our own precedents. In addition, the
    jurors in this case reached an eminently reasonable conclusion
    — that the San Jose Police Department should be commended
    for handling this dangerous situation properly, and ultimately
    bringing about a peaceful resolution. The Sixth Circuit, ana-
    lyzing similar facts, reached the same conclusion as the jury
    in Estate of Bing. Our own precedents in Lindsey and Al-
    Azzawy are in accord with the Sixth Circuit’s decision. Mak-
    ing all inferences in favor of the verdict, the jury’s conclusion
    was a reasonable interpretation of the facts, and supported by
    substantial evidence. Therefore, the district court should not
    have granted Fisher judgment notwithstanding the verdict.
    For these reasons, I would reverse the district court’s grant
    of Fisher’s renewed motion for judgment as a matter of law
    and reinstate the jury’s verdict.