New Jersey Division of Child Protection and Permanency v. N.C.M. and T.E. and J.C. in the Matter of the Guardianship of T.M., M.L.W., and M.A.J.M. , 438 N.J. Super. 356 ( 2014 )


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  •                        RECORD IMPOUNDED
    NOT FOR PUBLICATION WITHOUT THE
    APPROVAL OF THE APPELLATE DIVISION
    SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY
    APPELLATE DIVISION
    DOCKET NO. A-3666-13T3
    NEW JERSEY DIVISION OF CHILD
    PROTECTION AND PERMANENCY,             APPROVED FOR PUBLICATION
    Plaintiff-Respondent,           December 16, 2014
    APPELLATE DIVISION
    v.
    N.C.M.,
    Defendant-Appellant,
    and
    T.E. and J.C.,
    Defendants.
    ____________________________________________
    IN THE MATTER OF THE GUARDIANSHIP
    OF T.M., M.L.W., and M.A.J.M., minors.
    _____________________________________________
    Argued telephonically November 19, 2014 –
    Decided December 16, 2014
    Before Judges Sabatino, Simonelli, and
    Guadagno.
    On appeal from the Superior Court of New
    Jersey, Chancery Division, Family Part,
    Hudson County, Docket No. FG-09-210-14.
    Eric R. Foley, Designated Counsel, argued
    the cause for appellant (Joseph E. Krakora,
    Public Defender, attorney; Mr. Foley, on the
    brief).
    Renee Greenberg, Deputy Attorney General,
    argued the cause for respondent (John J.
    Hoffman, Acting Attorney General, attorney;
    Andrea M. Silkowitz, Assistant Attorney
    General, of counsel; Ms. Greenberg, on the
    brief).
    Catherine Davila, Designated Counsel, argued
    the cause for minors T.M., M.L.W., and
    M.A.J.M. (Joseph E. Krakora, Public
    Defender, Law Guardian, attorney; Ms.
    Davila, on the brief).
    The opinion of the court was delivered by
    GUADAGNO, J.A.D.
    Defendant N.C.M. (Nora)1 appeals from the April 1, 2014
    judgment of guardianship which terminated her parental rights to
    her daughters T.M. (Tara) and M.L.W. (Mary), and her son,
    M.A.J.M. (Matt).   At the time of the guardianship trial, Tara,
    Mary, and Matt were nine, seven, and thirteen months,
    respectively.
    Defendant contends that the Division of Child Protection
    and Permanency (Division) did not prove by clear and convincing
    evidence the third and fourth prongs of the best interests test
    required for termination.   N.J.S.A. 30:4C-15.1(a).
    Specifically, she claims that the Division's failure to provide
    reasonable efforts to prevent placement and effectuate
    reunification with her children is a direct result of an earlier
    1
    We employ pseudonyms to protect the privacy of the minors and
    for ease of reference.
    2                           A-3666-13T3
    failure by the Division to provide adequate services to her when
    she was a minor and under the Division's care and supervision.
    We are satisfied that the Division proved the requisite
    statutory factors required to terminate defendant's parental
    rights by clear and convincing evidence.   The circumstances of
    this case, however, compel us to discuss the Division's
    obligation to provide services, specifically mental health
    evaluations and treatment to minors under its care, and whether
    the failure to provide such services can be considered in
    evaluating reasonable efforts if the minor later becomes a
    defendant in a guardianship proceeding.
    I.
    Nora was born in 1989.   Although the record is sparse from
    this period, it appears that shortly after her birth, the
    Division took custody of Nora and placed her with B.J.M. (Beth)
    and her husband, who later adopted her.    Nora's birth parents
    died during her early childhood and her adoptive father died in
    2001.   Nora grew up with five siblings, all of whom were adopted
    by Beth.
    After experiencing problems completing the fourth grade,
    Nora was placed in special education classes and was diagnosed
    with a reading disorder.   It appears that, at some point, Nora
    3                           A-3666-13T3
    was classified as disabled, and Beth received benefits on her
    behalf.2
    The Division was again involved with Nora in February 2002,
    when it received a referral that Nora, who was then twelve, had
    been beaten.   After determining that Nora was uninjured, the
    Division found the allegation to be unsubstantiated.    In June
    2003, the Division received another referral alleging that Nora
    had been injured internally.   This time, the Division confirmed
    that Nora had been injured, and Beth was responsible.    The
    record does not indicate what, if anything, the Division did in
    response, although Nora continued to reside with Beth.
    Later that year or in early 2004,3 the Division removed Nora
    and her siblings from Beth's custody due to Beth's alcoholism.
    Details on Nora's initial placement are not included in the
    record, but in November 2004, when she was fifteen and still
    under the Division's care, Nora gave birth to Tara.    The
    Division placed Nora and Tara in a high school program for teen
    mothers, but Nora withdrew from the program in 2005.
    2
    This conclusion is drawn from Nora's statement to an evaluating
    psychologist that Beth took her social security check and used
    it to pay Beth's mortgage.
    3
    The record only indicates that Nora was removed at age
    fourteen.
    4                            A-3666-13T3
    In December 2006, Nora gave birth to Mary.       Shortly after
    Mary's birth, Beth made a referral to the Division alleging that
    Nora had moved back into her home without permission.       Due to
    Beth's substance abuse issues, the Division removed Tara but
    permitted Nora, who was then seventeen, to continue living with
    Beth.
    In May 2007, Beth made another referral to the Division
    after an altercation with Nora.       Beth told the caseworker that
    she wanted Nora out of her house.      A Division report indicates
    that Tara had been returned to Nora and witnessed the incident
    but does not indicate whether the Division took any action.
    In December 2010, Beth made another referral to the
    Division alleging that Nora "leaves the children with anyone
    that is available."   Nora had been living at her sister's home
    with Tara and Mary, but was thrown out and moved back in with
    Beth.   Beth also alleged that Nora would not get out of bed to
    take care of the children, which she attributed to drug and
    alcohol abuse.
    The Division investigated the same day.       Nora told the
    caseworker that she had nowhere to live if she could not stay
    with Beth.   The caseworker presented Nora with the option of
    going to a shelter or paying for a hotel.       If she did not find
    5                           A-3666-13T3
    housing, the caseworker told Nora that the Division would remove
    her children.
    Although Nora moved in with a relative, the Division
    substantiated her for neglect due to "inadequate shelter" because
    "her shelter problem is chronic as she has a pattern of
    homelessness for the past six years . . . [and] has been in
    shelters, stayed with family members and in friends' homes."
    After the December 2010 incident, the Division referred
    Nora for homemaker services and psychological and substance
    abuse evaluations.   Although she attended the homemaker
    services, Nora refused to submit to a drug screen and did not
    appear for her psychological evaluation.     In March 2011, Nora
    became homeless for the third time in two months.
    The current litigation resulted from a referral received by
    the Division in April 2012 alleging that Nora was under the
    influence when she picked up her daughters from school.     Nora
    was so impaired that she could not write her daughters' names to
    sign them out of school.   Division caseworkers learned that Nora
    had been escorted out of the building by police and the girls'
    maternal aunt had picked them up.   Two days earlier, Nora had
    picked up one of her daughters from school and later returned to
    the school claiming the child was missing.     The child was found
    wandering alone near a local daycare center.     The Division also
    6                           A-3666-13T3
    learned that Tara had missed thirty-nine days of school and
    would be held back in the first grade.
    Nora admitted to smoking a mixture of marijuana and PCP
    known as "dip" earlier in the day.   The caseworker observed that
    Nora remained under the influence during the interview, as she
    continually opened and closed her eyes, swayed in place, and
    alternatively laughed, yelled, or said nothing in response to
    the worker's questions.   Nora also admitted that she had been
    staying in various homes.   Tara and Mary confirmed that they had
    been staying in Jersey City, but did not know where.
    As a result of the investigation, the Division executed an
    emergency Dodd removal4 of Tara and Mary.   The children were
    placed with a resource parent and family friend of Nora's, N.M.
    (Natalie), where they remain to date.    T.E. (Tom), the
    biological father of Tara and Mary, was incarcerated at the time
    of removal.
    The Division offered services following the removal,
    including weekly supervised visitation, substance abuse and
    psychological evaluations, substance abuse treatment, parenting
    4
    A Dodd removal is an emergency removal of a child from the home
    without a court order or the consent of the parent or guardian.
    It is authorized "if the child is in such condition that the
    child's continuance in the place or residence or in the care and
    custody of the parent or guardian presents an imminent danger to
    the child's life, safety, or health, and there is insufficient
    time to apply for a court order." N.J.S.A. 9:6-8.29.
    7                           A-3666-13T3
    skills classes, and two letters to welfare regarding housing
    assistance.   The Division also assessed three relatives as
    potential placement options, but all were ruled out.
    Nora failed to appear for her first scheduled psychological
    evaluation, but attended the rescheduled visit with Dr. Robert
    Kanen.   Dr. Kanen diagnosed Nora with marijuana and PCP abuse,
    based on the April 2012 incident and her admission that she used
    those drugs on a daily basis for six months in 2011.    He found
    that Nora has an IQ of sixty-seven, is functionally illiterate,
    and is "cognitively and learning disabled."    Dr. Kanen
    recommended substance abuse treatment and parenting skills
    classes, but stated that her capacity to benefit from either is
    limited due to her cognitive impairments.     Nora was referred for
    parenting skills classes but was discharged from the program for
    non-compliance.
    Nora began substance abuse treatment at Health Path in
    October 2012, but was discharged from the program after one
    month for non-compliance.    The Division referred Nora for a new
    drug abuse evaluation, after which she began treatment at New
    Pathways in December 2012.    She successfully completed this
    intensive outpatient program two months later.
    Nora also participated in daily counseling and group
    therapy from June 2012 through February 2013.    She attended
    8                          A-3666-13T3
    their Women's Group, Narcotics Anonymous Group, and Anger
    Management Group for those nine months.
    In February 2013, the Division received a referral from
    Jersey City Medical Center regarding the birth of Nora's third
    child, Matt.5    The referent alleged that Nora had not received
    any prenatal care and suggested that Nora was suffering from
    cognitive or psychological impairments that would limit her
    ability to care for the child.
    A Division caseworker investigated and Nora admitted that
    she did not receive prenatal care but explained that she did not
    have health insurance.    A nurse observed that Matt appeared
    healthy and that Nora acted appropriately with him.    Drug
    screens of Nora and Matt were negative.
    Nora claimed to be staying with a friend named James, but
    could not provide his last name or address.    Nora offered to
    stay with a family friend if James' home was deemed
    inappropriate.    Although the family friend had adopted four
    Division children already, her resource parent license had
    expired and, as a result, the Division ruled her out as a
    placement.   The Division took custody of Matt upon his discharge
    5
    Nora listed J.C. as Matt's putative birth father, but he could
    not be located.
    9                           A-3666-13T3
    from the hospital and initially placed him in a separate foster
    home, but later placed him in the same home as Tara and Mary.
    Nora submitted to a psychological evaluation with Dr.
    Jemour Maddux, who concluded that Nora's reunification with her
    children could occur within six months if Nora remained drug-
    free.   He recommended unsupervised visitation leading to
    overnight visits, concurrent supervised visitation, therapy with
    the children, adult literacy classes, and a support group upon
    reunification.
    In April 2013, the court approved the Division's permanency
    plan of reunification and found the six-month time frame
    appropriate.   Nora never received unsupervised visitation as the
    Division had concerns that she was still using drugs.   Nora
    tested positive for PCP later that month and again in May 2013.
    A supervised visit that month was terminated because she was
    visibly under the influence.   Nora was referred to the inpatient
    program at Straight and Narrow.
    As a result of her relapse, the court changed the
    permanency goal to termination of parental rights and the
    Division filed a complaint seeking guardianship of all three
    children.
    During evaluations with Dr. Maddux, Tara and Mary disclosed
    exposure to Nora while she was "under the influence."   Dr.
    10                        A-3666-13T3
    Maddux concluded that this indicated neglect.    Both girls also
    stated that their mother no longer abuses drugs and were
    optimistic about reunification.    Reports of Nora's visitation
    with the girls were positive, with the children displaying a
    close bond, loving interactions, and Nora demonstrating good
    parenting skills.
    Nora was discharged from Straight and Narrow in October
    2013 for non-compliance and fraternizing with a male patient.
    She tested positive for PCP at a subsequent evaluation.    While
    she was consequently referred to an inpatient program at Turning
    Point, Nora did not attend.   Her urine screen was positive for
    PCP again later in October 2013.
    Nora was again referred for parenting classes, but was
    terminated after one month for non-compliance.    She was re-
    referred for substance abuse treatment at Integrity House, but
    was non-compliant, and her case was closed in December 2013.
    She was re-referred for parenting classes in March 2014, but was
    discharged for failure to attend.
    On January 27, 2014, Tom executed an identified surrender
    of his parental rights of Tara and Mary to Natalie.   Nora's
    guardianship trial began in March 2014.   The court first heard
    from caseworker Raymond Brown, who testified to the services
    offered to Nora to effectuate reunification, including parenting
    11                       A-3666-13T3
    classes, substance abuse assessments, substance abuse treatment,
    supervised visitation, psychological evaluations, relative
    assessments, transportation assistance, and referrals for
    housing assistance.   He stated that Nora was transient, had
    failed to complete parenting classes or inpatient substance
    abuse treatment, and could not provide proof of employment.       He
    indicated that Tara and Mary had expressed their desire to be
    adopted by Natalie.
    Dr. Kanen testified that Nora's severe parenting deficits
    made it very difficult for her to provide her children with a
    stable home.   He noted Nora's history of drug abuse, and that
    she did not believe she needed drug treatment.      Dr. Kanen also
    noted that Nora remained dependent on living with others due to
    her continued homelessness, and that she was aware of the
    services that the Division wanted her to complete but believed
    they were unnecessary.   Dr. Kanen concluded that based on Nora's
    cognitive impairments, unstable housing, and continued use of
    PCP, she was incapable of providing the three children with a
    permanent, safe, and secure home.      He also testified that her
    ability to parent is unlikely to change in the foreseeable
    future because her psychological issues are chronic and she has
    not addressed her drug problem.
    12                         A-3666-13T3
    Dr. Kanen testified that the bonding evaluation revealed
    that the girls displayed "avoidant attachment" as shown by their
    withdrawal after witnessing Nora's oppositional behavior toward
    a Division caseworker.   He concluded that Nora and Matt have no
    attachment, and that the girls' attachment to her "at best is
    very, very insecure."
    By contrast, Dr. Kanen testified that the girls engaged in
    conversation with Natalie and appeared excited and happy.     He
    concluded that they are securely attached to Natalie and,
    although Tara and Mary would likely experience some grief if
    Nora's parental rights were terminated, they would not suffer
    serious and enduring harm and Natalie could ameliorate what
    grief arose.   Due to a lack of any attachment, Dr. Kanen noted
    that Matt would suffer no harm upon termination.   He testified
    that all three children would be at risk for serious and
    enduring harm if returned to Nora's care.
    Neither the law guardian, who supported the Division's
    request for termination, nor Nora presented any witnesses.     The
    court found that the Division had met its burden of proving all
    four prongs of N.J.S.A. 30:4C-15.1 by clear and convincing
    evidence, and entered a judgment of guardianship terminating
    Nora's rights to Tara, Mary, and Matt.
    13                          A-3666-13T3
    On appeal, Nora presents the following bifurcated argument:
    POINT I
    THE DIVISION FAILED TO MEET ITS BURDEN OF
    PROOF   WHERE  THERE   WAS   NOT  CLEAR AND
    CONVINCING PROOF SUFFICIENT TO SATISFY THE
    FOUR PRONGS OF N.J.S.A. 30:4C-15.1(A).
    A. THE DIVISION FAILED TO PROVIDE
    REASONABLE   EFFORTS   TO   PREVENT
    PLACEMENT    AND   TO    EFFECTUATE
    REUNIFICATION      BECAUSE      THE
    UNDERLYING PREDICATE CIRCUMSTANCES
    OF THIS CASE THAT LEAD TO ANY
    ALLEGED HARMS TO THE CHILDREN WERE
    A DIRECT RESULT OF THE DIVISION'S
    FAILURE TO PROTECT N.M. AND HER
    CHILDREN DURING N.M.'S MINORITY.
    B. THE DIVISION FAILED TO PROVIDE
    REASONABLE    EFFORTS     TOWARDS
    REUNIFICATION AFTER THE CHILDREN
    WERE REMOVED.
    C.   THE DIVISION FAILED TO PROVE
    BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE
    THAT   TERMINATION    OF   PARENTAL
    RIGHTS WILL NOT DO MORE HARM THAN
    GOOD   DUE   TO    THE   DIVISION'S
    INTERFERENCE IN THE COMPARATIVE
    BONDING EVALUATIONS.
    II.
    Our review of a trial court's judgment terminating parental
    rights is limited.   N.J. Div. of Youth & Family Servs. v. M.M.,
    
    189 N.J. 261
    , 278 (2007).   The trial court's factual findings
    are binding on appeal if supported by adequate, substantial, and
    credible evidence.   Cesare v. Cesare, 
    154 N.J. 394
    , 412 (1998)
    (citing Rova Farms Resort, Inc. v. Investors Ins. Co., 
    65 N.J. 14
                           A-3666-13T3
    474, 484 (1974)).     Particular deference is afforded to family
    court fact-finding because of the family courts' special
    jurisdiction and expertise in family matters.     
    Id. at 413.
        A
    trial court's legal conclusions, however, are not entitled to
    deference.    N.J. Div. of Youth & Family Servs. v. I.S., 
    202 N.J. 145
    , 183 (2010).
    A parent's right to raise and maintain a relationship with
    his or her child is constitutionally protected.     In re
    Guardianship of K.H.O., 
    161 N.J. 337
    , 346 (1999).     That right is
    not absolute, however, and must be balanced against the State's
    parens patriae responsibility to protect the welfare of its
    children.    N.J. Div. of Youth & Family Servs. v. G.M., 
    198 N.J. 382
    , 397 (2009).     Courts apply the "best interests of the child"
    standard to properly balance parental rights against the State's
    interest.    
    K.H.O., supra
    , 161 N.J. at 347.   That standard
    permits termination of parental rights only where the State
    proves the following elements by clear and convincing evidence:
    (1)   The     child's   safety,   health    or
    development has been or will continue
    to   be   endangered  by  the   parental
    relationship;
    (2)   The parent is unwilling or unable to
    eliminate the harm facing the child or
    is unable or unwilling to provide a
    safe and stable home for the child and
    the delay of permanent placement will
    add to the harm. Such harm may include
    evidence that separating the child from
    15                           A-3666-13T3
    his resource family parents would cause
    serious   and  enduring   emotional  or
    psychological harm to the child;
    (3)   The   division   has  made   reasonable
    efforts to provide services to help the
    parent correct the circumstances which
    led to the child's placement outside
    the home and the court has considered
    alternatives to termination of parental
    rights; and
    (4)   Termination of parental rights will not
    do more harm than good.
    [N.J.S.A. 30:4C-15.1(a).]
    These four factors are neither discrete nor separate, but
    instead overlap to provide a comprehensive standard that
    identifies a child's best interests.   N.J. Div. of Youth &
    Family Servs. v. G.L., 
    191 N.J. 596
    , 606-07 (2007).    The
    analysis is "extremely fact sensitive and require[s]
    particularized evidence" for the given case.   
    Id. at 606.
        For
    involuntary termination, the "cornerstone of the inquiry [is]
    whether the parent can cease causing his or her child harm and
    become fit to assume the parental role within time to meet the
    child's needs."   N.J. Div. of Youth & Family Servs. v. L.J.D.,
    
    428 N.J. Super. 451
    , 479 (App. Div. 2012) (citation omitted).
    Nora does not contest that the Division proved prongs one
    and two by clear and convincing evidence.   Therefore, we address
    only her challenge to the proofs as to prongs three and four.
    16                           A-3666-13T3
    A.
    Under the third prong of the best-interests standard, the
    Division must make "reasonable efforts to provide services to
    help the parent correct the circumstances" that necessitated
    removal and placement of the child in foster care.     N.J.S.A.
    30:4C-15.1(a)(3).    "Reasonable efforts" may include parental
    consultation, plans for reunification, services essential to
    achieving reunification, notice to the family of the child's
    progress, and visitation facilitation.      N.J.S.A. 30:4C-15.1(c).
    More specific services include day care, housing assistance,
    referrals to drug treatment, medical or health care, parenting
    classes, financial assistance, and the like.     In re Guardianship
    of D.M.H., 
    161 N.J. 365
    , 391 (1999).
    The reasonableness of the Division's efforts "is not
    measured by their success."    
    L.J.D., supra
    , 428 N.J. Super. at
    488.   Even if the Division's efforts are deficient, the best
    interests of the child standard still controls whether
    termination is appropriate.    
    Ibid. Defendant's challenge to
    the
    prong-three proofs is based on her claim that the Division
    failed to protect her and her children during her minority when
    she was under the Division's care.     She alleges that these
    failures caused any alleged harm suffered by the children during
    the pendency of this litigation.      Defendant does not contest
    17                           A-3666-13T3
    that the Division provided multiple psychological evaluations,
    with follow-up treatment.   Simply stated, Nora's argument is
    that the Division's failure "to protect [her] and provide
    reasonable services when she was a child-parent caused the
    almost inevitable issues that arose in [her] early adulthood
    years."
    We acknowledge that the Division's apparent failure to
    provide services to Nora after her removal from Beth's home when
    she was fourteen gilds this argument with superficial appeal.
    However, we are aware of no statutory authority or precedent
    holding that the Division's failure to provide services to a
    child under its care can be considered in a subsequent
    guardianship matter involving that same child in her later
    capacity as a parent when assessing the adequacy of services
    required under Title 30.
    We also view defendant's argument that her problems would
    have been lessened or even abated had she received adequate care
    during her minority as speculative.   The fact remains, and Nora
    does not dispute, that during the pendency of this litigation
    the Division provided ample services to her and she failed to
    take full advantage of them.   While Nora's argument that the
    Division's services were offered too late to functionally assist
    her in becoming a suitable parent finds ample support in the
    18                          A-3666-13T3
    record, we are compelled to reject it as untethered to statutory
    or other existing legal authority.
    The Division removed Nora from Beth's custody when she was
    fourteen, and remained involved with her and her siblings over
    the next three years.    The record is devoid of any evidence of
    services provided to Nora during this time when she gave birth
    to two children.   Nor is there any explanation why the Division
    removed Tara from Beth's home because of her alcoholism but
    allowed Nora, also a minor under the Division's care, to remain.
    Even a cursory examination of Nora's history would have
    alerted the Division to her struggles in school and apparent
    learning disability.    Had the Division provided a psychological
    evaluation when Nora was first removed, there would have been
    insight into her low IQ, and help could have been provided.
    N.J.A.C. 10:122D-2.5(a) requires such evaluations and
    follow-up services:
    The Division representative shall make every
    reasonable effort to assure that each child
    in     out-of-home     placement     receives
    appropriate   and  necessary   health   care,
    including mental/behavioral health services.
    This obligation is reaffirmed in subsection (f):
    The Division representative shall assure
    that   the    child   receives   a   medical
    examination at least annually after the
    initial medical examination performed at the
    time of placement . . . .       The Division
    representative shall assure that each child
    19                        A-3666-13T3
    with a suspected mental/behavioral health
    need receives a mental/behavioral health
    assessment and identified follow-up care.
    At a minimum, the child's examinations shall
    comply with the Early and Periodic Screening
    and    Diagnostic   Treatment    periodicity
    schedule in accordance with N.J.A.C. 10:54-
    5.10 through 5.13.
    After the Division removed Nora from Beth's custody, the
    only record of Division interaction with Nora thereafter came as
    the result of Beth's numerous referrals.    The only
    "substantiated" allegation against Nora during this period is
    that she was homeless from ages fourteen to nineteen, a highly
    questionable finding.    Other than the placement in a high school
    for teen mothers in 2004, the record is devoid of Division
    efforts to assist Nora with any of her problems during these
    formative years.
    In 2012, Dr. Kanen determined Nora's IQ was sixty-seven,
    she was functionally illiterate, and cognitively and learning
    disabled.    While it is regrettable that the Division did not
    identify and address these deficiencies earlier, we decline to
    recognize a causal link between those failures and the adequacy
    of the services that were ultimately offered to Nora as a
    defendant parent in this proceeding.
    B.
    Nora challenges the Division's proofs under the fourth
    prong and argues that a Division caseworker's interjection into
    20                         A-3666-13T3
    her bonding evaluation "caused a skewed result that was then
    relied upon by the court" in determining that termination would
    not do more harm than good.   We disagree.
    To satisfy the fourth prong of the best-interests test for
    termination, the Division must prove by clear and convincing
    evidence that "[t]ermination of parental rights will not do more
    harm than good."   N.J.S.A. 30:4C-15.1(a)(4).    "The question to be
    addressed . . . is whether, after considering and balancing the
    two relationships, the child will suffer a greater harm from the
    termination of ties with her natural parents than from the
    permanent disruption of her relationship with her foster
    parents."   
    K.H.O., supra
    , 161 N.J. at 355.
    The child's "paramount need" for permanent, stable, and
    defined parent-child relationships is key.      
    Ibid. It is therefore
    against a child's best interests to prolong permanent
    placement because the natural parent is unable to care for the
    child for a protracted period.   N.J. Div. of Youth & Family
    Servs. v. B.G.S., 
    291 N.J. Super. 582
    , 592 (App. Div. 1996).
    A court must inquire into the child's relationship with
    both the natural and foster parents on prong four.      
    K.H.O., supra
    , 161 N.J. at 355.   To that end, the Division should offer
    the testimony of a "well qualified expert who has had full
    opportunity to make a comprehensive, objective, and informed
    21                             A-3666-13T3
    evaluation of the child's relationship with the foster parents."
    In re Guardianship of J.C., 
    129 N.J. 1
    , 19 (1992).   "[W]here it
    is shown that the bond with foster parents is strong and, in
    comparison, the bond with the natural parent is not as strong,
    that evidence will satisfy the requirement of N.J.S.A. 30:4C-
    15.1(a)(4) that termination of parental rights will not do more
    harm than good to the child."   
    K.H.O., supra
    , 161 N.J. at 363.
    Here, the trial court relied on Dr. Kanen's conclusions
    from the bonding evaluations he conducted with the foster parent
    in January 2014 and with Nora in February 2014.   Dr. Kanen
    testified that the children are securely attached to Natalie but
    have only an insecure attachment to Nora and would not suffer
    serious or enduring harm if permanently separated from Nora, but
    would suffer such harm if returned to her care.   He further
    opined that Natalie is able to ameliorate any emotional harm
    resulting from the termination of Nora's parental rights.      The
    court noted that Nora failed to present any evidence to the
    contrary and found that the Division had satisfied this prong.
    Nora asserts that the court's comparative bonding analysis
    is flawed because a Division caseworker interfered with her
    evaluation.   Dr. Kanen testified that he permitted caseworker
    Kim Johnson to enter the room in which the bonding evaluation
    was to take place immediately behind himself and the family.
    22                          A-3666-13T3
    The evaluation began in the hallway two to three minutes
    previously.   Johnson and Nora argued for a few minutes, at which
    point Johnson left to get her supervisor.    The supervisor and
    Johnson returned and continued to argue with Nora for several
    minutes more, while Tara and Mary became continually more
    withdrawn.    Dr. Kanen did not stop or move the conversation
    elsewhere to avoid exposing the children to the conflict.       He
    testified that he allowed the argument to continue because he
    did not anticipate the discussion would escalate, he had never
    conducted an evaluation that had been interrupted by the
    Division, and did not know whether to acquiesce or object.
    Dr. Kanen noted that the girls were initially happy at the
    evaluation, but became withdrawn and depressed upon witnessing
    Nora's oppositional behavior toward the Division workers.       In
    his report, Dr. Kanen wrote that this incident was "an example
    of how [Nora's] oppositional behavior can have a detrimental
    impact on the emotional development of these two girls.    [Nora]
    had no insight into the reaction of [Tara] and [Mary].    She
    showed no evidence of sensitivity to how her behavior and
    emotions affect her children."
    Although it would have been preferable that any discussions
    between the caseworker and defendant had not interfered with the
    evaluations, we do not find the procedure so flawed that it
    23                         A-3666-13T3
    should have been disregarded by the trial court.   Ultimately,
    Dr. Kanen's testimony remains unrebutted and the trial court
    credited his testimony in concluding that the children would not
    suffer more harm than good from terminating Nora's parental
    rights.   The record contains substantial, credible evidence to
    support this conclusion.
    Affirmed.
    24                        A-3666-13T3